Project Reality Forums

C4 on Insurgency is used unrealistically, in a game breaking way. The Kit is worse than the HAT kit, because you effectively get as many bomb cars as you have civilian cars, and its almost impossible to counter. The Root of the problem is that C4, unlike IED's, sticks to vehicles. I don't see very much purpose in this, and it ruins a match of insurgency.

The Scenario:

N00bcake or EOD guy(explosive ordinance disposal) ETC leaves main, taking his uber 1337 CE Kit. HE dies, which is to be expected in PR, and the insurgents get the kit. They rush the kit-bearer to the refuel point for insurgents, and the insurgents bring any old civilian car or technical to him and he places MULTIPLE C4 Charges on the vehicle, around 3-4. This amount of charges WILL kill a tank in one go, and on top of that, its completely unexpected. YOU CAN PLACE C4 ON MOTORBIKES, COME ON. The BLUFOR Team Won't see it coming, and they can't counter it; because the Combat Engineer guy is in the Insurgent main and doesn't have to leave for ammo, or anything. All he needs is to have VOIP communication with the driver to know when to blow up the vehicle.

Because of this flaw in game mechanics, i've been thinking about trying to get the kit banned altogether on our server, despite its other valid uses. Its just too much of a game breaker. At least the HAT user is Killable(still working on a ban for this one.) So I ask the DEV's to please remove C4's ability to stick to vehicles, and make it like IED's in that they can stick to static objects but not vehicles. This would vastly improve game balance and make the Combat Engineer kit usable in Insurgency again without upsetting server admins and Blufor players.

If anybody uses HATs or CE kits on insurgency, its the fault of the team to let him do so imo. Just tell the retarded guy to bring it back to base. If he does not follow, just kick him from your server and have another one bring it back. Your server --> Your rules.

If anybody uses HATs or CE kits on insurgency, its the fault of the team to let him do so imo. Just tell the retarded guy to bring it back to base. If he does not follow, just kick him from your server and have another one bring it back. Your server --> Your rules.

thats a little unfair since a team cannot force a player not to do things unless admins are present.

Another one weeper, which had bad round in PR?
Are you expecting that everyone will be fair every time? Terrorists always using some dirty tricks. Suicide bombers not always blows itself, it can be done remotely by some cell leaders, so You cant do anything with them.
Also there are stupid people in every army. And they can die stupid and therefore give their weapons to enemy.
So why you deny this all in PR?

whoever brings a HAT to insurgency unless using it to kill a cache and then IMMEDIATELY getting killed inside some car to loose the kit or bring it back to main should be at least whipped bad Oo

C4 can be useful to kill underground caches at mansion for example. (i'm not gonna tell you how, but it IS useful). same goes for losing the kit there.

[R-CON]Rudd wrote:thats a little unfair since a team cannot force a player not to do things unless admins are present.

Then you shouldn't play on a server that isn't moderated.

As for the suggestion, insurgents use anything they can get. If there is an opprotunity for a better weapon than they have, they will take it.

Theres something called "Teamwork" and you should have a sniper shoot the guy with C4 in their main....

boilerrat wrote:Then you shouldn't play on a server that isn't moderated.

while I agree, you aren't being practical, as you cannot control the comings and goings of admins, and you cant guarentee 100% that an admin even on a good server will be present, perhaps its a slow day or whatever.

What I'd suggest is leaving the CE kit on insurgency, however instead of C4, get the old SLAMs back for use on caches and possibly for destroying mines, IEDs and grenade traps.

maybe even decrease the destructive radius so they can be used on doors

Inca_Killa wrote:...So I ask the DEV's to please remove C4's ability to stick to vehicles....

So do you think this makes it more realistic? I'm already seeing the incoming post with pictures and examples to put it back, as soon as the the removed version comes out.

PLUS it is realistic to place C4s on cars and blow it from far away. And it is realistic to steal BLUFOR kits. And it is realistic to resupply them because we already have bomb cars. Actually I could not found anything unrealistic here.

Theres a lot of "features" that have to be taken out of the game because servers aren't moderated as much as they should.

Some servers don't mind if insurgents shoot into blufor main, take CHICAGO HARDCORE for example.

But lashkar and Archer have giant domes of death because of people unable to shoot back or have server rules against it so that.

Now you guys would like to take away HATs and CE kits for blufor? To me that sounds more like a server's lack of rules or moderation rather than a gameplay issue.

A lot of the things people consider gameplay flaws I would consider features.

As far as civi cars go, you should treat them all as bomb cars anyways since they are in all colours now. Bikes, its called just shoot the guy. Keep long fire lanes and good approaches where you have the time to shoot them off.

boilerrat wrote:Theres a lot of "features" that have to be taken out of the game because servers aren't moderated as much as they should.

Some servers don't mind if insurgents shoot into blufor main, take CHICAGO HARDCORE for example.

But lashkar and Archer have giant domes of death because of people unable to shoot back or have server rules against it so that.

Now you guys would like to take away HATs and CE kits for blufor? To me that sounds more like a server's lack of rules or moderation rather than a gameplay issue.

A lot of the things people consider gameplay flaws I would consider features.

think of this way then

what is the benefit of having a blufor C4 armed kit? what realistic tactics or strategies can be implemented with it in the context of an insurgency round?

[R-CON]Rudd wrote:think of this way then

what is the benefit of having a blufor C4 armed kit? what realistic tactics or strategies can be implemented with it in the context of an insurgency round?

Same argument could be used for HAT, TOW, AA emplacements/handheld and buildable tank traps/HMG nests for BluFor. To be honest, I'd like 1k insurgency maps to use the rally system only for BluFor, have no buildables away from BluFor main and

I'd agree that Insurgency maps should have a different kit and placeable list than AAS, but c4 can be used to destroy buildings that insurgents might be in, TOWs can be used against bomb trucks, etc. I don't choose to use them in game this way, but they aren't any more unrealistic than a lot of other situations.

Same argument could be used for HAT, TOW, AA emplacements/handheld and buildable tank traps/HMG nests for BluFor. To be honest, I'd like 1k insurgency maps to use the rally system only for BluFor, have no buildables away from BluFor main and

HATs and TOWs are used in afghanistan and iraq...whereas I haven't heard many stories of americans waiting on roads with C4 to destroy insurgent convoys

AA isn't sure, but its work to remove something that has been set to do no damage apart from to aircraft now iirc?

the anti tank obstacles are just part of wire, which is used IRL....I imagine jersy barriers are used instead more or something but same gameplay difference.

IF anything, IED should stick to things, i mean how hard is to take 20 cm of american tape and stick it somewhere, or just put it into the glove compartment...

alberto_di_gio wrote:So do you think this makes it more realistic? I'm already seeing the incoming post with pictures and examples to put it back, as soon as the the removed version comes out.

PLUS it is realistic to place C4s on cars and blow it from far away. And it is realistic to steal BLUFOR kits. And it is realistic to resupply them because we already have bomb cars. Actually I could not found anything unrealistic here.

Is it realistic that insurgents have American C4 stashed at their mosque? Is it Realistic that C4 sticks to vehicles while IED's don't? Is there a reason Blufor needs sticky C4? Seriously? Also, one C4 per bomb car means very little, if C4 was so abundant they would have more than one so they could blow up tanks in one go.

I'm not saying 'REMOVE C4' I'm saying 'REMOVE THE STICKY PROPERTY OF C4.'

boilerrat wrote:Theres a lot of "features" that have to be taken out of the game because servers aren't moderated as much as they should.

So you expect an admin to constantly watch what kits people take? Good moderation is great, but you expect too much; as if admins have magical eyes in the back of their heads. We play too, you know and we can't see everything. Nor do players consistently watch to see what kits people take, at least not the majority.

boilerrat wrote:Theres something called "Teamwork" and you should have a sniper shoot the guy with C4 in their main....

Your suggesting I break my own servers rules, and the rules of many other servers? .

General_J0k3r wrote:C4 can be useful to kill underground caches at mansion for example. (i'm not gonna tell you how, but it IS useful). same goes for losing the kit there.

Great, I like this. Now please remove the ability of C4 to stick to vehicles and we'll be great!

ChizNizzle wrote:IF anything, IED should stick to things, i mean how hard is to take 20 cm of american tape and stick it somewhere, or just put it into the glove compartment...

Just so everyone knows, Project Realities first goal is gameplay, not realism. There's a lot of real life stuff you can't do in PR but instead we have this. It reminds me of Vanilla.

Inca_Killa wrote:This amount of charges WILL kill a tank in one go, and on top of that, its completely unexpected. YOU CAN PLACE C4 ON MOTORBIKES, COME ON. The BLUFOR Team Won't see it coming, and they can't counter it;

No you see why the war on terror is still going.

goguapsy wrote:No you see why the war on terror is still going.

At least they don't have to deal with bad latency/hit reg.



Come on, give me a break guys. Is it fun to you to never have armor support, not be able to counter it, and constantly have motorbikes/civilian cars ram into your infantry squad and explode? Or Firebase for that matter.

Who's up for walking from main with no transport..!!

This isn't including the players who admins don't catch who take CE kits out of the main, switch over, and go grab it on Insurgent side. What can you even do with C4 on Insurgency? I can see using mines as area defense, and the wrench as EOD work, but I don't see the point in having CE even carry C4 packs onto the battlefield against sneaky little tricksters like insurgents.

Inca_Killa wrote: Is it Realistic that C4 sticks to vehicles while IED's don't?

I guess "sticking" here is not "exactly" means it sticks. Think it as you are just putting them into the car.. what makes the difference?

IEDs don't stick to vehicle models because it gave the insurgents more bomcars than intended, and removed transportation in the process. The c4 is supposed to stick to things and was not removed because it is not used in the same carefree manner as an IED nor is it as plentiful. It is a game play distinction.