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Forward Air Controllers

Wikipedia on FAC's


I was sitting there sick on my couch watching the military channels "Wings in Vietnam" series and they had a whole episode on FAC's. These were men who volunteered to fly out over a combat scene and direct CAS onto enemy positions to lower collateral and blue on blue damage.

During vietnam they generally flew the "L-19/O-1 Bird Dog" from an airstrip near by.

Basically they would communicate with ground forces, figure out a mental image of the battle and try to relay that to pilots coming in. They would then launch a white phosphorous smoke onto the enemy position and direct the incoming CAS attack upon that position.

Now A) I was thinking this could maybe turn into a commander sort of thing. Obviously they didn't have UAV's in vietnam and this would be a cool thing to replace it with. If the commander could just kind of fly around and spot an enemy POS and call in smoke on that area? I'm not 100% sure how or if this will work but from my point of view this seems do-able.

B) Secondary idea not as good as first but it could be a 1 man "recon" plane that can mark targets with smoke. I know in FH2 the recon plane can have a view from underneath, that would be an OK concept but doesn't sound too appealing to me.


I hope I presented a good idea with some good info, please don't hurt me.

we should get a Danny Glover kit, so we can buzz round in a cessna O2 haha

but on a serious note, yeah that'd be pretty good. shooting little white phos rockets and all

What was ever wrong with the squad leader as a spotter?

Smiddey723 wrote:What was ever wrong with the squad leader as a spotter?

He's talking about airborn FAC's

Smiddey723 wrote:What was ever wrong with the squad leader as a spotter?

Well in Vietnam they didn't have GTLD's to laze stuff for CAS. They also did not have UAV's. Either they play it blindly or the squads could try to direct CAS in chat/mumble. Instead of having to go in blind you could just have a commander flying around in a FAC directing the CAS squad which way they need to come in, what ordinance to drop and where to drop it.

SCE_BloodyStars wrote:Forward Air Controllers

Now A) I was thinking this could maybe turn into a commander sort of thing. Obviously they didn't have UAV's in vietnam and this would be a cool thing to replace it with. If the commander could just kind of fly around and spot an enemy POS and call in smoke on that area? I'm not 100% sure how or if this will work but from my point of view this seems do-able.

I find that idea quite good. It would just set another difference between vietnam and common pr while keeping the pr standard. I see a lot potencial and atmosphere with that plane.

the FAC was also responsible for decideing whether civilions where in danger from TAC air. with out the FAC airstrikes would never be authorized.

based on the style of PR and the way peaple play for the long game. i personally am quite happy to wait 15 minutes waiting with an ied for that one great kill. i would suggest that that both FACS support aircraft are supposed to be grounded unless called for by the commander.

for example as you sit and wait. you get the call you fly out. your friendly units pop smoke you mark the target area with a phosphorous rocket and let the airstrikes come in then land and wait for the next call.

chagadiel wrote:the FAC was also responsible for decideing whether civilions where in danger from TAC air. with out the FAC airstrikes would never be authorized.

based on the style of PR and the way peaple play for the long game. i personally am quite happy to wait 15 minutes waiting with an ied for that one great kill. i would suggest that that both FACS support aircraft are supposed to be grounded unless called for by the commander.

for example as you sit and wait. you get the call you fly out. your friendly units pop smoke you mark the target area with a phosphorous rocket and let the airstrikes come in then land and wait for the next call.

Have to disagree here. FAC's are first in, last out. They work a sector, pretty much like an ATCO, co-ordinating all aircraft movements, engagements in the area wrt ground forces.
When aircraft come up on the station area, they check in with the FAC. Examples below:

Excerpts taken from "Hog Basics:RAF Bentwaters Tactics Guide, 1982" Written by Andy Bush, a former A-10A pilot. Link here


Your initial call is to authenticate the FAC…and he authenticates you. Once the authentication is done, then you provide the FAC with your flight data:

1. Call sign.

2. Mission number (if appropriate).

3. Number and type of aircraft

4. Ordnance and fuzing (for a single aircraft)

5. Playtime

This would sound something like:

“Cobra 20 is inbound with two Hogs, two Mavericks and four CBU-58, and we’ve got 30 minutes playtime.”


His initial response will be to give you the target area basic info:

1. Abort code

2. Rendezvous info

3. Deconfliction instructions

4. Intel update

5. Altimeter setting


With these pleasantries out of the way…and with the fighters ready to receive their specific instructions... the FAC prepares his briefing for the fighters. This is called the "Nine Line Brief" as it consists of nine items. The fighters will be holding at the contact point when this info is given.

The 9-line brief looks like this:

1. IP (initial point)

2. Heading to the target

3. Distance to the target

4. Target elevation above sea level

5. Target description

6. Target coordinates (TACAN radial/DME, lat/longs, or grid)

7. How the target may be marked (smoke, laser TISL code)

8. Location of friendlies

9. Egress direction


“IP Alpha, 360 degrees for 7 kilometers, elevation 500 feet, truck convoy on north-south road, grid AB7550, FAC will mark with smoke, friendlies 2 kilometers east in town, egress south.”


Example Chart from the London FIR which the above was based on:




Apologies for the epic post length. Tried to break it up as best i could.

no its not epic but clear and concise.
you are of course right i was trying to keep it simple and sweeping. what i meant in simulation terms was more that the FAC wasnt to fly around the map constantly before and afterwards mainly so that they would loiter out of harms way and come back in where needed

chagadiel wrote:no its not epic but clear and concise.
you are of course right i was trying to keep it simple and sweeping. what i meant in simulation terms was more that the FAC wasnt to fly around the map constantly before and afterwards mainly so that they would loiter out of harms way and come back in where needed

I see what you're trying to get at now. Might be worth the DEV's taking a look at removing the out of bounds timer for aircraft then. Solves the problem.

yes that would work if they could do that

Not a bad suggestion.

However, there should probably be a limit to how many you can fire in a given ammount of time.

Not to spam enemy with smoke and kill performance, mark targets AND screen friendlies.

Just enough for doing one or the other until the smoke has pretty much gone.

I don't think it'll happen but it's more logical than F.A.C in normal PR.

another great point.
a limit on smoke rockets would make it work or every peice of ordanance costs the team points even smoke rockets making the use of airstrikes and artillary barrages an expensive pay off to complete the objective.

a good example would be when i run my vietnam wargame i give the company commander a set amount of artillary say for instance 40 minutes worth of fire. he then chooses whether to and how much of it he will use to barrage a landing zone before the hueys land.

the point is in PRV if napalm cost points then the commander can decide wether to start a LZ with preparatory airstrikes and artillary for a safer start to the game with acost of tickets or risk charlie waiting for them as the choppers land and risk looseing men and helicopters

chagadiel wrote:another great point.
a limit on smoke rockets would make it work or every peice of ordanance costs the team points even smoke rockets making the use of airstrikes and artillary barrages an expensive pay off to complete the objective.

a good example would be when i run my vietnam wargame i give the company commander a set amount of artillary say for instance 40 minutes worth of fire. he then chooses whether to and how much of it he will use to barrage a landing zone before the hueys land.

the point is in PRV if napalm cost points then the commander can decide wether to start a LZ with preparatory airstrikes and artillary for a safer start to the game with acost of tickets or risk charlie waiting for them as the choppers land and risk looseing men and helicopters

I don't know if this is possible with the BF2 engine at all.

Sorry for the double post but I would really think this would be a cool ad-on and would like to know what a DEV thinks? As much as we have talked about it I havn't seen someone that can actually do something say much of anything.

TheOldBreed wrote:we should get a Danny Glover kit

Why danny glover? in OP dumbo drop he didnt call in an airstrike

Hitman.2.5 wrote:Why danny glover? in OP dumbo drop he didnt call in an airstrike

nope, but in BAT*21 he was an airborne FAC flying an O2. pretty good film, apart from they got the end wrong

SCE_BloodyStars wrote:Well in Vietnam they didn't have GTLD's to laze stuff for CAS. They also did not have UAV's. Either they play it blindly or the squads could try to direct CAS in chat/mumble. Instead of having to go in blind you could just have a commander flying around in a FAC directing the CAS squad which way they need to come in, what ordinance to drop and where to drop it.

No someone needed to get out,drop smoke(like purple or blue) then get back into the FAC and contact the CAS airbase by radio then get the hell out of there

Infantry1242 wrote:No someone needed to get out,drop smoke(like purple or blue) then get back into the FAC and contact the CAS airbase by radio then get the hell out of there

Not from what I saw/read. They had a cannon mounted to one of the wings of the plane and would dive straight towards the target area and release 2-4 canisters of white phosphorous smoke. This would be the most dangerous part of the FAC's mission because they would be flying low and slow. A plane could not land in the jungles of Vietnam behind enemy lines to throw smoke at them and take off, if that is what you were saying.