Project Reality Forums

Posted: **2010-06-11 13:08**

sauce: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... ost1363515

In this thread i got the idea to change GLTD from "click-and-wait" to "hold-mouse-button".
If the GLTD would lase continous if you hold the mouse button it would be much easier to lase moving vehicles, or lasing stationary objects which would move away last minute.
I know that it would work, because the LG firemode of the attack helis works that way.
theres no change to be done to any helicopters or anything, just to the GLTD to lase a continious beam. imo thats even more realistic as the "now i stick a laser point on that vehicle and get away, because i know that it will stay tehre" now ...

Posted: **2010-06-11 13:23**

This would make it absolutely impossible for armor to survive if they could be hit when moving. Imagine it in the open, a jet would have no trouble taking it down.

I do agree at the holding down part for stationary vehicles though.

Posted: **2010-06-11 13:34**

dtacs wrote:This would make it absolutely impossible for armor to survive if they could be hit when moving. Imagine it in the open, a jet would have no trouble taking it down.

I do agree at the holding down part for stationatry vehicles though.

youre not really right imo.
cause if you ahve to hold down untill hit, you will be much easier noticed by any tank driver, cause you ahve to keep visual contact. as it is now, you pop out behind something, shoot a lase and then you can get away again for 30 secs, so the tank will have no idea that hes been lased.
its far more realistic

Posted: **2010-06-11 14:19**

if possible i agree, could solve the issues of the other thread without having to do anything to the helicopters

and if the tank is out in the open on its tod it should expect to get a bomb/missile in its face

Posted: **2010-06-11 15:19**

dtacs wrote:This would make it absolutely impossible for armor to survive if they could be hit when moving. Imagine it in the open, a jet would have no trouble taking it down.

Did you ever think armour shouldn't move in the open when the other team has Air Superiority?

Helicopters can be shot down while moving, should we implement a code to force AFV gunners to only shoot at stationary helicopters?

Posted: **2010-06-11 15:36**

AaronFraher wrote:Did you ever think armour shouldn't move in the open when the other team has Air Superiority?

That is a total load and you know it. No team either in pubs or matches is going to keep their armor at bay simply because an Apache is flying around. Tanks shoot down Apaches that are careless, but in the hands of a decent FAC and decent pilots, armor will stand little chance.

Helicopters can be shot down while moving, should we implement a code to force AFV gunners to only shoot at stationary helicopters?

No, "we" should add code that makes it so you can't spin a tank/APC turret around in a ridiculously fast fashion by using the WASD keys similar to the static AT guns on Yamalia/Kozelsk/etc, but thats a whole other suggestion.

Zoddom wrote:youre not really right imo.
cause if you ahve to hold down untill hit, you will be much easier noticed by any tank driver, cause you ahve to keep visual contact. as it is now, you pop out behind something, shoot a lase and then you can get away again for 30 secs, so the tank will have no idea that hes been lased.
its far more realistic

Realism and playability, there is a fine line between them. In addition you don't have to be completely exposed to know that you're being lased. Often tanks don't even know their getting lased (in my experience) until an officer or sniper happens to see it and notify them.

Jonny wrote:Currently, armour can be 'lased' and then hit when out of view of the GLTD. This would prevent that from being possible, and actually make it harder to get a solid lase on moving armour, not easier.

No it wouldn't, its practically impossible to get a lase to 'stick' when lasing a tank. Holding it down would mean you can lead it, at the moment if you hold it down it just continually resets the lase as the target moves. Proof:

You mean out of view as in out of view distance, correct? Notice in the video, I tested the tank when it was out of the view distance, resulting in fuzzy white track bug. I also tested the peripheral vision trick. You're implying that this should not be possible yeah? Disagree, PR has unrealistic view distances and this makes up for it.

Also explain how this would make it impossible? Tank is out of view distance, I see the little white fuzz of its tracks, and hold it down while calling in CAS. Whats not possible here?

Posted: **2010-06-11 16:09**

dtacs;1363616 wrote:That is a total load and you know it. No team either in pubs or matches is going to keep their armor at bay simply because an Apache is flying around. Tanks shoot down Apaches that are careless, but in the hands of a decent FAC and decent pilots, armor will stand little chance.

Apaches and as ive proven in the past A10's

Posted: **2010-06-11 16:26**

m1oh7 wrote: Apaches and as ive proven in the past A10's

Which is unrealistic. Slow flying choppers? Maybe. Jets? No armor crew would waste rounds trying.

Jonny wrote:Last time I tried, it was practically impossible to get it to stick to the point it hit, but perfectly easy to get it to stick to the vehicle. Currently, holding down the button continually sends a laser mark object from you to the target at the low speed of the small paper-plane-like-thing that marks itself (MAs: how many of these planes are carried by the GLTD?), sometimes not even reaching the target. It does not currently 'reset the lase'.

Yet the box is lagging behind, not in a smooth manner as if it was a real laser tracking it?

You should NEVER have to lead a target with a laser. Ever. Light takes a tiny fraction of a second to travel across any distance you will ever be capable of manually marking a target across. If you need to take travel time into account, you have already missed the lasing opportunity.

I never said anything about leading a target. Obviously I wouldn't do that, but in PR, on the surface of course, it seems to be the thing to do even though it doesn't work.

By 'out of view' I mean unable to be seen, or not visible to you. Specifically, a tank that has just gone behind a hill, rock formation or building the moment after it has been marked. That tank would currently be 'lased' for around 30 seconds, even though it cant actually be seen by the person with the laser marker. With the new system it would be lased for around 1/2 to 1 second, effectively meaning that you need to be able to see the tank to keep it lased for any useful length of time.

Ah ok, ignore the part of the test when its out of view distance then. It is unrealistic for it to be able to continue to stick even when out of view.

However...a 500lb bomb or whatever exploding a couple of meters from a tank around a corner would no doubt cause injuries to the crew right?

Posted: **2010-06-11 16:35**

This is the way we have always wanted it, obviously, but there wasn't any way we could think of doing it in the past but now we do believe there is a way this can be archived quite simply and much more user friendly. POC testing has yet to be done on it thou but the theroy behind it sounds pretty solid.

Posted: **2010-06-11 16:46**

Jonny wrote:@Rhino:
I assume you are using a high-speed (~1500m/s) guided projectile that becomes a sticky laser marker that lasts about 1/2 second on impact with a surface, and allowing several of these projectiles in the air at any one time to allow for longer range lasing?

no, that wouldn't work because 1, the bomb/missile would track the "lase" while flying though the air, with it most likley landing somewhere 1/2 way in-between the target and the player lazing it and 2, the projectile dose not stick at that speed.

Posted: **2010-06-11 16:46**

Jonny wrote:Your video of 'proof' is no such thing.

1st section:
The tank is moving out of the path of the little self-lasing planes BEFORE they hit it and get a chance to stick.
Because the tank is moving and you need to be extremely lucky to get a lase to stuck...
49 to 50 seconds in:
The lase sticks to the tank before this, and as the tank begins to move the marker is visibly moving with it.
This is because I was idle when he sent the lase, lases stick on idle vehicles, not ones going full speed as you see earlier
1:03 in:
the lase reaches, and then sticks to the tank. The sudden change in its position is it sticking to the tank, but not where it impacted. Exactly as I said earlier.
wut?
Around 1:20 in:
The most clear destruction of your own argument,
the tank is moving along with a lase stuck to it perfectly happily. This is several seconds after you actually lased it,
Again, tank was idle
and so it could have gone behind an opaque barrier between you and it and would continue to be lased for a not-insignificant amount of time. During this time, it could be hit by a LGM while moving and while not being in a location where it is possible for it to be lased, this is the part I would like changed.

I dont care about the glitchy tracks, or peripheral vision tricks. I care about the laser not actually behaving in any way like a laser.

From the tank driver

Posted: **2010-06-11 16:48**

Jonny wrote: 1st section:
The tank is moving out of the path of the little self-lasing planes BEFORE they hit it and get a chance to stick.

You're not getting it, they DON'T STICK when its moving, thats my point. If it was a continuous laser, the GLTD would be incredibly overpowered due to its ability to track the target, which, as shown at the start, is impossible to do because CAS can't lock onto the 'planes', or whatever, that are changing.

49 to 50 seconds in:
The lase sticks to the tank before this, and as the tank begins to move the marker is visibly moving with it.

I'm not sure if we're on the same level here, I'm not talking about lasing THEN moving, I'm talking about first initiating the lase while it is moving.

Around 1:20 in:
The most clear destruction of your own argument, the tank is moving along with a lase stuck to it perfectly happily. This is several seconds after you actually lased it, and so it could have gone behind an opaque barrier between you and it and would continue to be lased for a not-insignificant amount of time. During this time, it could be hit by a LGM while moving and while not being in a location where it is possible for it to be lased, this is the part I would like changed.

Obviously not on the same level here. You do realize I lased the tank when it was still, right?

I dont care about the glitchy tracks, or peripheral vision tricks. I care about the laser not actually behaving in any way like a laser.

And you're saying that tracking it with a constant beam is going to be harder than it currently is?

See post #7, also quoted in post #8.

Pardon me, I thought you meant that those were the tactics I was implying for use, which I don't since it doesn't work, as demonstrated in the start of the vid (lase not sticking)

Posted: **2010-06-11 16:51**

Personally, I would actually prefer that the GLTD requires a constantly-active target tracking via such a method. This is how the real units work, and it's how they should work in game as well.

Yes, you'd be fully capable of tracking a moving target, which is perfectly realistic.

By adding such a feature, it would require the FO/FAC to constantly keep the target within the reticle limits of their designator, while not getting themselves killed. And as others have mentioned, spotters will no longer be able to mark a target that is about to take cover behind/under an obstacle. If the spotter can't see it, he can't paint it.

The question is, can such a system be added easily? And if so, how much of a priority would it be for the team to work on? If it's possible, I'm sure it'll be added eventually. But I don't think it's yet considered a high priority when so many other tasks are on their menu.

Posted: **2010-06-11 16:59**

Yes, you'd be fully capable of tracking a moving target, which is perfectly realistic.

Realistic, but severely overpowered as armor would have NO idea they're being lased. People are talking as if the one lasing would have to expose their whole body, when in PR they only have to expose their forehead due to the BF2 avatars firing bullets out their heads.

By adding such a feature, it would require the FO/FAC to constantly keep the target within the reticle limits of their designator, while not getting themselves killed. And as others have mentioned, spotters will no longer be able to mark a target that is about to take cover behind/under an obstacle. If the spotter can't see it, he can't paint it.

How about just coding in the ability for the lase to remove itself when the target is behind terrain or statics or whatever?

Posted: **2010-06-11 17:03**

Jonny wrote:1: there is no way for the bomb to lock onto the projectile. The projectile does not have a laser marker object.
2: When the projectile impacts a surface, a laser marker is placed at the point of impact. The projectile just needs to 'explode', not to stick.

Sorry read your post wrong.

Basically ye, but not quite.

Basically the idea is to have the GLTD fire lots of projectiles on automatic fire and have the projectile itself with no lase, then when the projectile strikes the target we have a invisible partial effect spawn which has a laze attached to it that has a TTL of 1/2 a sec or something, giving it enough time for the next projectile behind it to strike and "explode" before it fades away. There is no need for any "sticking" because the laze is there for such a short period of time and dosen't move off from where it exploded.

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