Project Reality Forums

Basically i'm suggesting a way to stop the exploit of players quickly picking up kits for a variety of reasons / hot swapping kits.

This happens by almost all players all the time.. i do it all the time, for bandages, ammo, better weapon, for the medic kit, to cycle between medic and hat or similar...

What i suggest, IF POSSIBLE, which it way not be is; to add some sort of delay, like when arming the HAT... to simulate the picking up of the kit, rifle, magazines etc etc.

In reality this would take at least 30 seconds or so to search a body and collect and store its contents on your person.... being able to do this in game in a nano second is used as an exploit. This would mean you can still take kits off dead people but you would have to think about it and only do it when it's appropriate.

Anyway food for thought. Apologies if this has been discussed or suggested previously.. i searched and found nothing.

Don't know about this really. Its unrealistic to take 30 seconds to grab some ammo or a bandage of a corpse or just its primary weapon. IIRC it's also impossible to add new animation to characters, only change the ones we currently have.

Basically its the way the kit system is unrealistic that is the problem. You should be able to take as little or as much equipment as possible from the corpse and add a time delay proportional to the amount of stuff you took. But we're stuck with having to choose just one speed.

Kits are hard coded though.

How is this being exploited?

There is still the 3-4 second delay when a weapon from the new kit is selected, if you needed to i'm sure you could pick up an enemy weapon of the ground in 4 seconds.

After a victorious attack those kits to be pillaged are the reward, a few ammo bags and a special kit and I'm happy.

Dunno, in once scenario all your doing is going into someone's kit to get a bandage or ammo bag, in the other scenario you have already gutted the equipment and removed it from the body as left it ready as a backup weapon so wouldn't have to search it each time. If were talking about a kit from your own side, the only thing your going to be picking up realistically is his specialist equipment, ie rope or eppi-pen, even with a HAT, all your taking is the secondary weapon which is already loaded. Too many variables affect the speed that you would be able to get a kit of the ground and ready, in one case, that of looting an enemy body it is too quick, in all other cases a 30 second delay would be unrealisticaly slow, I think it is probably best left as is.

I don't see any problem with a "Delay" for picking up the kit. This would introduce many new tactics and procedures =)

Leave it as is. All delay would do is just kill your entire squad.

Example:A firefight is happening, the medic just happens to be killed. What do you do? Pick up his kit. But uh oh, it takes 30 seconds to arm and so your time would've been much better spent shooting. And your squad dies because the kit didn't arm fast enough.

I think the easiest and best way to discourage the abuse of the kit request feature is to remove the desire to abuse it. Reducing the time needed to resupply a trivial and small item such as a field dressing, hand grenade or incendiary grenade, would remove the desire to use the kit request feature to quickly procure the same exact item that would otherwise take a long time to resupply.

And I don't see this as being practical if you needed to quickly switch from one weapon to another in order to survive, such as if you ran out of ammunition and needed to take a weapon from an enemy you killed. The only way to fix that would be adding the ability to switch one weapon in your kit for one weapon in another kit and even if this were possible, it would be able to be abused to tailor your own kit.

I see where you are comming from Tommy, it's irritating to come up against a player
who has the ability to utilize a ranged weapon/AT etc and also having access to medic or CQB
weapns at the drop of a hat. Becoming like the 'Swiss Army Rambo'

However, IRL if you were stationary/defending it would be conceivable to have access to
other weapons and create your own mini-cache to cover a number of alternatives.

So in fact if you were holed up in a room and had sufficient ammo, you might have 2 additional
rifles loaded and ready to go rather than reloading your own. Or giving you the option between
a long range rifle or CQB shotgun, and thus having the ability to make a stand whilst waiting for back up.
As and when you decide to leave your spot you can't take it ALL with you.

So, in essence I don't think it is a big problem, the fact that it gives players the ability to do this
is one for the DEVs to consider in terms of whether this promotes team play or not. IMO
it is not a problem as it does in fact mirror what can be achieved in real life.

Leave it as it is.

ps in ArmA/OA you can do exactly that, i.e. equip yourself or a vehicle or a
spot/position with as many weapons as you have time to organise.

A firefight is happening, the medic just happens to be killed. What do you do? Pick up his kit. But uh oh, it takes 30 seconds to arm and so your time would've been much better spent shooting. And your squad dies because the kit didn't arm fast enough.

"I'M LOOKING FOR THOSE EPIPENS, WHERE THE ... DID HE PUT HIS EPIPENS!??"

To be a bit more serious, in my opinion 30 sec could be a bit too long since almost everything that has something to do with time has to be an average. At least when working with BF2's engine. Sometimes you'd only check for that field dressing or any other thing that might've been carried.

However instantly being able to take everything is a lot worse than 30 seconds delay for it. Covering a guy who's searching bodies could be concidered as a form of teamwork.

I'm up for it!

It slows down the pace of recovering personel and makes killing the medic/Hat/ManPAd that much more important since someone can't go to the kit and insta pickup.

Hope its possible.


Edit:

Sure 30 seconds might be too long. I'm fine with 10.

@Grossi

It can't mirror real life since you took only one example. A predefined stockpile designed for easy access. He's talking about in battle actions where people are dying and you salvgage their equipment. Two way different things.

Haji with a Handgun wrote:Example:A firefight is happening, the medic just happens to be killed. What do you do? Pick up his kit. But uh oh, it takes 30 seconds to arm and so your time would've been much better spent shooting. And your squad dies because the kit didn't arm fast enough.

You said it yourself: spend that time shooting.
Only pick up that medic kit when you have cleared the threat and can take that time.

If adding a delay were possible, that would be fantastic.
Furthermore, 30sec would be pretty fast to strip your gear, and that of a 180lbs corpse and then redress yourself..
This would make the drive-by medic-kit swap impossible at best.

One can dream...

-REad

ytman wrote:
@Grossi

It can't mirror real life since you took only one example. A predefined stockpile designed for easy access. He's talking about in battle actions where people are dying and you salvgage their equipment. Two way different things.

I guess the point being you can't have it both ways.

As we can't have the rifles as seperate items to pick up only (as this would only be a matter of seconds irl) we have them bound to the kit. People would then complain
that it takes forever to pick up a gun and shoot it! This delay on top of the
time it takes to select the weapon wait for it to settle and take your shot.

As a compromise, would it be possible to introduce a delay to prevent spamming
so if you did it more than say twice in a minute then that would introduce a delay.
Similar to when you draw a kit from a crate or vehicle!

In BF2 you have no choice.. if you choose to pick up a kit you take it all.. webbing, helmet, rifle, grenades, magazines, patches, rope, epipen etc etc this would take a lot longer than 30 seconds. However i only mentioned 30 seconds as a random example 1st number that came into my head. The number of seconds is not what this suggestion is about. Make it 10 or 100... theory is the same.

Restricting the hot swapping is the key. The everyone is a medic/Hat/specialist all at a drop of a hat. (pun intended)

And yes it would force you to clear the threat or have your squad cover you before you go picking up the medic kit or grabbing the LAT.

Calhoun wrote:I think the easiest and best way to discourage the abuse of the kit request feature is to remove the desire to abuse it. Reducing the time needed to resupply a trivial and small item such as a field dressing, hand grenade or incendiary grenade, would remove the desire to use the kit request feature to quickly procure the same exact item that would otherwise take a long time to resupply.

I agree completely. The only time I plunder enemy kits is for bandages/ammo (except when i'm an insurgent). It usually takes forever to reach a supply depot, the least you can do is make it so I don't have to go looting bodies to get a grenade.

With that said, because we can't specify different times for different items, a small delay is a good compromise.

i love that idea because know when you arrest people or when they surrender they cant surprise when they pick up a kit
although this happens very rarely

is it possible to add some kind of animation when you are picking up a kit though?

Essentially you are talking about adding in a punishment because the game engine doesn't allow for a more sophisticated inventory system. Look at the scenarios being discussed here, if I'm holding a building, covering the windows with a marksman rifle or such, what is so illegitimate about having an RPG propped up against the wall beside me, as it stands, I already cannot leave the thing ready to fire, so I have to load it once I pick it up. Similar scenario, your squad mate pops up just beside you with his loaded anti-tank, but before he can fire at an APC it drills him with coax, now all you should have to do is reach to your left grab the weapon, put it on your shoulder and fire, but even as it stands there is an unrealistic delay as you have to load it again. Adding an extra delay plus animation would make it nigh on impossible to 'clear the threat' as you need his kit to do it.

Reviving a medic with his own kit; your lying on the body, you have ease of access to all his equipment right there in front of you, all your doing is using one of his bandages on him and using one of the eppi-pens, normally before giving him his kit back. Your intention was never to strip him of all his gear and put his hat floppy hat on. If the area isn't clear anyway your both going to get drilled, so that much makes no difference.

The fake civilian scenario, hardly an illegitimate tactic either, fact is, when he backs off into that back lane to pick up his AKS he doesn't want the RKG, the bag of stones, the combat knife and all the magazines, all he wants to do is pluck up his hidden weapon and swiss cheese the guy chasing him (which incidentally, is also not in a ready to fire state). But as it is, he has to pick up all this gear he has no intention of using, punishing him for that is not realistic or fair.

Searching a body, friendly or enemy for patches; adding in a 30 second kit pick up time would mean that it would take a whole minute, plus time to activate the item. to roll a body over and pull a patch out of his pouch before being able to move off again.

Picking up a fresh kit because your out of one kit item; every item in the kit is duplicated, if all you are doing is detaching his ammo bag the webbing an attaching them to your own, but because there is no inventory system, you have to replace your rifle for his identical rifle, your combat knife for his combat knife, your patch for his patch, etc.

Finally, looting an enemy with the intention of moving off with all of his gear and discarding your own. I agree this is too quick, but in making this single scenario more realistic, you are making all other scenarios unrealistic to the point ridiculousness.

Boris.T.Spider wrote:Essentially you are talking about adding in a punishment

eh?.. punishment, no, a suggested change yes.

Boris.T.Spider wrote:looting an enemy with the intention of moving off with all of his gear and discarding your own. I agree this is too quick, but in making this single scenario more realistic, you are making all other scenarios unrealistic to the point ridiculousness.

There are no other scenarios.... as that is how it works. All other scenarios are imagined.

Mad, yes it is a suggestion to add a punishment or penalty and as its a computer game all scenarios are imagined, that was the whole point of my post. We cannot realistically represent every single scenario, when you are taking a single easily accessible item from a corpse you press G, 9, LMB, G as we play we imagine that what we are doing is looting the body for its bandages. We don't imagine that we strip the other guy of all his gear, redress him with ours, go through his pockets, grab his bandages, undress him again, get into your old cloths and redress him with all his equipment, although, from the games perspective this is what is actually happening.