Project Reality Forums

Well, here goes another thread on some suggested changes to try and better PR.

I've noticed a glaring lack of time for pilots to be able to take counter-measures against missiles, especially in helicopters. Once you've been locked and the missile is fired, you have about... somewhere between a tenth and half a second to pop flares and break to evade.

Let's set a semi-realistic example. In reality, a reasonable average velocity for a MANPAD, would be at best, about Mach 1.85. This comes out to a velocity of 629 m/sec. If they choose to fire at 4 kilometers, this would come out to about 6.4 seconds for the pilot to pop countermeasures and evade. Currently, most aircraft in the US have SAM launch detection systems, so it's not as if they're unaware of when a guy with a Grail has walked out of a cave and shot at something. Current detection systems would also be able to know the general direction and location of a SAM launch.

So my suggestion is for AA missiles to be slowed down. Although they may have realistic velocities, the distance they need to cover is not.

Funny how I can never shoot anything down with Manpads.

It is my Experience™ that choppers getting shot down by AA is the exception rather than the rule.

[R-MOD]Eddiereyes909 wrote:Funny how I can never shoot anything down with Manpads.

Is possible but you need to find a rubbish pilot who dosen't know how to use there flares

Well yes the velocity is good but i dont think it comes out of the barrel at mach 2 instantly in real life... or does it?

ChizNizzle wrote:Well yes the velocity is good but i dont think it comes out of the barrel at mach 2 instantly in real life... or does it?

Naturally it dosen't and acceleration of missiles is something we will hopefully look into in the future

[R-MOD]Eddiereyes909 wrote:Funny how I can never shoot anything down with Manpads.

If the helo is close to the flares, just fire your missile anyway. The airburst will still hurt.

It may be worth it to try and have helicopters shoot flares out from the left and right sides instead, seeing as how most flare dispensers work that way, instead of having them fall in a random circle.

Ive yet to shoot down a chopper with stationary AA in 0.9, they just seem to fly away smoking.. or not smoking back to main, however Ive shot down LOOOOOOTS of choppers (going full speed) with the TOW and a few with HAT kit. If were on it, AA kit seems totally useless in 09, better grab a LAT and hope to hit a landing chopper.

For every one chopper pilot who is frustrated with occasionally being shot down by an AA missile, there are one-hundred AA emplacement gunners who are frustrated with the seeming futility of the missiles. And yes, I did the research, these numbers are accurate.

AA manpads dont cost tickets or have a respawn to build and neither are they limited or require a kit to use - making aircraft more valuable than AA pads.

i do have take down some aircraft with a man pad, its not impossible =D

Nebsif wrote:Ive yet to shoot down a chopper with stationary AA in 0.9, they just seem to fly away smoking.. or not smoking back to main, however Ive shot down LOOOOOOTS of choppers (going full speed) with the TOW and a few with HAT kit. If were on it, AA kit seems totally useless in 09, better grab a LAT and hope to hit a landing chopper.

i agree ive had better shots on flying choppers with an RPG than with an AA, i find it ridiculous when you shoot an AA missile toward a chopper and at the last second he flares and the missile is somehow instantly attracted toward the flare, i dont really know how aa missiles work IRL but i dont once an AA missile is locked onto an aircraft and fired it will just go onto a different signature as soon as it sees it.

also i dont agree with the OP, its already somewhat unrealistic, the AAs in .87 where to more realistic and to be a pilot in 87 required some serious skill IMO.

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:Naturally it dosen't and acceleration of missiles is something we will hopefully look into in the future

I thought the Eryx already did an accelleration

I'd favor for the reverse implementation of this; instead of slowing down the missiles a significant amount to mimic that time, instead raise the range of AA emplacements beyond the view distance; 1500m or above should work. Aircraft should have to fly at extreme heights to avoid lock, and be extremely vulnerable when descending into an AA's range. Flares should also shoot out as opposed to down; shooting out from the sides a good distance to create a more distinct and deliberate pattern of flares. The missiles blast range could then increase, so pilots would be encouraged to flare and then move away from the flares.

Also, if possible, give the AA a radar-like indicator of any lock signature present around the AA vehicle (like a lock box on the edge of the screen in the direction of the vehicle), and make the radar angle up slightly from the AA launcher so that low-flying aircraft can use both the hills and this distinct disadvantage to counter AA (at 600m, the highest a target that could be hit would be at around 100m altitude, for example; a helicopter flying below that can use the pop-shoot method to engage the AA).


(Slowing down the missile in this case is also somewhat acceptable, but increasing the range would be the primary solution to avoid any strangely slow missiles)

Sgt.BountyOrig wrote:I thought the Eryx already did an accelleration

Ye possibly just a lot of the missiles dont right now.

[R-MOD]Eddiereyes909 wrote:Funny how I can never shoot anything down with Manpads.

PEBKAC issue

I don't agree with the suggestion tbh, I think that with the current lock on tones if a pilot is sensible and pops flares on the way in he'll be fine. As has been stated so many times you cannot mod the players.

If we set the velocity of the missile to about the speed of sound, it would take around 3 seconds for said missile to go 1 kilometer, it would allow pilots to buy enough time to counter MANPAD and SAM launches. Adding in additional things like fully working proximity fuses for missiles that have them, not allowing flares to detonate the missile, and also allowing the missile to relock onto heat targets within it's field of view after passing through them, assuming that they did not collide with solid objects.

So even if you pop flares, you will still be killed if you are within the path of the missile.

maybe give chopper pilots more countermeasures and keep the aam the same? lol
just make it harder for them to lock on... and aircraft rarely fly under 1000 unless they're landing, chasing enemy, or ground attack. and when they do, it should be brief and they should deploy countermeasures while doing so.

not took out a helo with AA?

^ Attack choppers go down easy, but trans choppers take more than 1 missile.

If anything, AA missiles should recieve some boost and do more damage to choppers.. or just "nerf" the choppers to how they were in 0.87, every nab can fly one in 09.. Hitting a flying lynx with RPG at the belly just for it to RTB smoking is just BS, and the Chinook which is like a flying light APC in terms of armor.