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reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-21 05:13
by Charliesierra-RCR
Hey guys, here's an idea i thought of while spending countless hours doing nothing on tour...
Insurgency mode.. its good and all, but i think it could be better.
How about instead of searching for weapon caches, we're looking for IED's..
Intel comes in about possible ied's within the map at certain locations... then, the non insurgent teams (Americans, brits, canadians, russians, israelis) go, search out for the IED's, and put up a Cordon on them.
Now what happens when the Cordon goes up? well, everyone was complaining about having the HAT kit in insurgency mode, so how about making a C-ied (Counter IED) Kit... only 4 per map, so you have a crew, and if used right, the crew should work together, and seeing C-ied crews dont use heavy armored fighting vehicles, or tanks n such, they should be able to transport them selves around in hmmv's, g wagons or other light armored vehicles.
So now, we have a cordon up, the C-ied team arrives, the cordon is there to provide security while the C-ied team dismantles the IED.
The insurgents dont want the IED to be found by coalition forces. so they try rushing the Corden with car bombs, mortars n such....
just a thought, let me know what you think
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-21 05:24
by mangeface
Eh, I like insurgency the way it is. It seems more realistic, as right now Coalition Forces are more centered to finding caches and insurgents than geared to find IEDs only. If you defeat the caches, you defeat the IEDs and the insurgents have nothing to make them with.
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-21 05:36
by whatshisname55
Why wouldn't the insurgents just detonate the IEDs when the other team gathers around them for dismantling.....?
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-21 05:40
by Rhino
You dont go out just to look for IEDs, you want to stay away from them hence why the heavy use of Helicopters in Afghanistan
The only time you search for IEDs is if your going though a area where IEDs could be present and you want to find them before they kill you.
As such, keeping Insurgency how it is is more realistic and more fun although I do believe you have a point which we are lacking right now in PR is that there is nothing right now to counter a IED other than to avoid it which isn't very realistic. We do plan to work on ways of disarming IEDs in the future but pretty low priority.
whatshisname55 wrote:Why wouldn't the insurgents just detonate the IEDs when the other team gathers around them for dismantling.....?
in r/l people who disarm IEDs do everything they can to make sure that dosen't happen. Most of there countering techniques I believe are classified for obvious reasons but one way which isn't classified are these things
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-21 07:54
by Truism
Eh, the search for Caches is nothing like it is in real life in PR. Insurgency is a very confused gamemode that doesn't know what it wants to be, and that's reflected in the fact that tactics are nothing like their real life counterpart. The ongoing civilian issue remains a thorn in the side of having a realistic ROE to emulate the contempory operating environment.
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-21 08:25
by Rhino
Truism wrote:Eh, the search for Caches is nothing like it is in real life in PR. Insurgency is a very confused gamemode that doesn't know what it wants to be, and that's reflected in the fact that tactics are nothing like their real life counterpart. The ongoing civilian issue remains a thorn in the side of having a realistic ROE to emulate the contempory operating environment.
If you have a more realistic alternative that still has good gameplay (ie, fun) we would like to hear it, although we don't want to hear anything that hasn't had any real thought put into it.
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-21 10:08
by mangeface
OriginalWarrior wrote:God loves the Combat Engineers, all they do all day is patrol and look for IED's. They will then disarm or call EOD to detonate. I trained as a 21b combat engineer with the army for a bit. Bunch of crazy ********.
Eh, combat engineers do deal with explosives, but AFAIK EOD handles detonating and disarming. That's USMC side. The army may differ.
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-21 11:06
by usmcguy
I think insurgency is just fine as for the IED part, when you go to disarm the IED there's gonna be a guy hiding close to you with a cell phone..which detonates the IED..
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-21 11:30
by BloodBane611
I spoke with a USN EOD team leader at Fleet Week in May. He'd just returned from Iraq, and was planning on being deployed to afghanistan in 10-12 months. According to him, the great majority of his work involved using a robot (like the one rhino showed above) to pick up and tear apart IEDs, the pieces of which were then recovered for forensic analysis.
So in short, there can be no realistic IED disposal without realistic robots, and in the end it's not going to be a hugely enjoyable thing anyhow - 10 players stand around while 1 dude drives a robot over, lather rinse repeat.
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-21 16:16
by goguapsy
[R-MOD]BloodBane611 wrote:I spoke with a USN EOD team leader at Fleet Week in May. He'd just returned from Iraq, and was planning on being deployed to afghanistan in 10-12 months. According to him, the great majority of his work involved using a robot (like the one rhino showed above) to pick up and tear apart IEDs, the pieces of which were then recovered for forensic analysis.
So in short, there can be no realistic IED disposal without realistic robots, and in the end it's not going to be a hugely enjoyable thing anyhow - 10 players stand around while 1 dude drives a robot over, lather rinse repeat.
...but those 10 people could be betting for a robot race or something...
OK I have a question. In PR, is there any non-hardcoded way to disarm man-put IEDs and grenade traps? At all?
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-21 16:18
by Turner
whatshisname55 wrote:Why wouldn't the insurgents just detonate the IEDs when the other team gathers around them for dismantling.....?
Exactly
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-22 00:38
by HAAN4
NO NO, don't make a bomb desarming robot.
a Robot is a fancy toy, A FANCY TOY, it's a tool of a Policemen, but not a tool of a soldier, no matter if he is SF or a grunt.
i mean, if there is no nuke i would not see all those abominations, instead just real warfare, whicht real oponets, those guys may look crazys kreeps that just like to kill thelsefs when not doing this be blowing up they has well, but trust me what they want is a decent life, of peace and food has well house. so this is not war. this is bullshiet.
to bad the atomic bomb make us away of war. be military today is a fail....
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-22 00:40
by rampo
HAAN4 wrote:NO NO, don't make a bomb desarming robot.
a Robot is a fancy toy, A FANCY TOY, it's a tool of a Policemen, but not a tool of a soldier, no matter if he is SF or a grunt.
i mean, if there is no nuke i would not see all those abominations, instead just real warfare, whicht real oponets, those guys may look crazys kreeps that just like to kill thelsefs when not doing this be blowing up they has well, but trust me what they want is a decent life, of peace and food has well house. so this is not war. this is bullshiet.
to bad the atomic bomb make us away of war. be military today is a fail....
What sort of evidence you have that coalition forces dont use bomb disarming robots?
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-22 01:17
by Imchicken1
[R-DEV]Rhino;1420900 wrote:As such, keeping Insurgency how it is is more realistic and more fun although I do believe you have a point which we are lacking right now in PR is that there is nothing right now to counter a IED other than to avoid it which isn't very realistic. We do plan to work on ways of disarming IEDs in the future but pretty low priority.
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-22 05:20
by Charliesierra-RCR
you guys missed the point i guess... they want this game to be based upon realism. and well the realism of insurgency is going on countless patrols in villages without ever comming across a firefight, spending countless hours standing in the desert on a cordon while EOD teams dismantle ied's... not to mention the countless hours of playing COD while on your downtime...
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-22 07:24
by Spartan0189
Yeah, but PR can't be just having dead games 24/7.
What your trying to say is what really happens when you have a game of good players (not to mention a commander). Essentially, having an organized game would suit all your needs. Besides, EOD teams have been discussed before, you can probably find my thread on it if you searched for it in the main discussions for PR.
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-22 09:10
by Celestial1
[R-MOD]BloodBane611 wrote:in the end it's not going to be a hugely enjoyable thing anyhow - 10 players stand around while 1 dude drives a robot over, lather rinse repeat.
"in the end it's not going to be a hugely enjoyable thing anyhow - 10 players stand around while 1 dude drops an incendiary on the cache, lather rinse repeat."
When you bring it down to that level of simplicity, anything can sound boring. Just like in current insurgency those 10 guys will be being mobbed by insurgents and it will actually be an improvement on the current system because 'capturing the objective' (destroying cache/disarming IED) now takes time that allows insurgents to attempt to mob the BluFor. It also requires multiple players to do, since the one player who can disarm it needs protection while operating the robot.
There would be some semantics to work out like how the IEDs are handled both defusal and discovery wise, but overall I think it provides somewhat of a fix so some of the problems of current insurgency (like people tossing incendiaries through windows in the hopes of getting the cache, and lonewolfing at that).
I also think that combining the current mode and this idea would be interesting ie. you have 5 IEDs to disarm and 3 caches to destroy during the course of the game (though the caches should become more difficult to destroy; whether it be scattering the cache into different pieces that all must be destroyed or something entirely different). The IEDs could even be an optional target that have the benefit of granting additional tickets on completion to reward the team that can pull off the coordination to disarm it.
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-22 11:57
by Charliesierra-RCR
what about the same idea of the cordons, but on the caches?... instead of just plopping down an grenade to blow the cache, an engineer has to come in and either remove the weapons, or just blow the entire cache with something more then a simple grenade... this being said too, now the insurgents want their cache so they try rushing or defending the area where the cache is, the infantry n support will have to set up a cordon for protection? with out the protection the insurgents will be able to take back their cache and kill the coalition member trying to defeat the cache.
and as for the cache, make it so only one person can get rid of it, like an engineer, give him c4 and det cord, and let him use like, 5 c4's instead of 1 grenade...
sounds a little bit better? or no?
Re: reinventing Insurgency
Posted: 2010-08-22 13:04
by IAJTHOMAS
HAAN4 wrote:NO NO, don't make a bomb desarming robot.
a Robot is a fancy toy, A FANCY TOY, it's a tool of a Policemen, but not a tool of a soldier, no matter if he is SF or a grunt.
i mean, if there is no nuke i would not see all those abominations, instead just real warfare, whicht real oponets, those guys may look crazys kreeps that just like to kill thelsefs when not doing this be blowing up they has well, but trust me what they want is a decent life, of peace and food has well house. so this is not war. this is bullshiet.
to bad the atomic bomb make us away of war. be military today is a fail....
