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This is not really a suggestion, more a discussion point. This is not a gripe at the specialist kit either btw, more targetting how the respawn times for civilians work
Generally when playing as insurgents I enjoy playing as civilian to provide support for my squad or team. But what I haven't understood is why Blufor Specialists can shotgun an innocent civilian and it counts as an arrest.

In a full blufor squad most squadleaders (I know I do) ask for a specialist at the start of the round just for the breaching power on insurgency or the maneuverability the grapple provides.

At that rate whenever a civilian comes across an enemy squad with a specialist at whatever the distance, or wherever the civilian is e.g having grappled up a building, it has become unbelievably difficult for him to 1) escape without being arrested or 2) perhaps attempt to lead the enemy squad into a trap. Even when the shotgun is used on an innocent civilian they have to sit there for a massive respawn time which seems a bit bizarre.

That's why I'm seeing a lack of civi's on maps.
A lack of civilians on a team means there is very little healing power early game for Opfor insurgents, but by the end of the round most insurgents squads have an enemy medic kit anyway, rendering the civi kit often unused.

My own opinion is that rather than blasting what is sometimes an innocent civi in the face with a shotgun and being rewarded for it, hence being the main tool for arresting in a squad, perhaps instead having the shotgun as a backup...

How this would work (remember we are talking about the shotgun alone):

• IF the shotgun is fired at an INNOCENT civilian, i.e one that has not collaborated with the insurgents for 1 min + all the other rules that apply to be an innocent civilian, then the Blufor team should lose "some" intel points, the specialist loses the 100 team points and the respawn time would be that of an innocent civilian being shot.

• IF the shotgun is fired at a COLLABORATING civilian, i.e one that has just been involved with insurgents like using the med kit, THEN the Blufor team is rewarded the intel points and the specialist awarded the team points.

In my view this would provide civilians with more of a chance ingame, and specialists would be more cautious as to who they blast with their shotgun
Please Discuss

The shotgun can arrest people so the civilian cannot hide in places (Edit: I.e places where they cannot be arrested via the restrainers, water, on a ladder etc). Arresting people also can be done at any time, not just if the civilian has done something "bad"

I've seen 3 blufor trying to arrest a civilian with the restrainers and eventually teamkilling each other.
Shotgun solved that

If you look at the current system you can't arrest an "innocent" civilian with a shot from a rifle for instance without receiving a penalty, but with a shotgun, you and your team are awarded for it. What difference is there between the two in reality though, you're just as, if not more likely to kill the "innocent" civilian with the shotgun rather than arrest them and get intel from them.

Currently the system simulates shooting a civilian with a rifle or vehicle loses you intel unless they have collaborated but somehow shooting them with a shotgun always gets you intel whether they have collaborated or not.

From my experience the shotgun is used more often than the restrainers to capture civilians now, whether they are somewhere accessible or not. Equally according to another thread civilians can't swim - (i have not personally tried and i dont know if thats been changed since 0.91)

As the system stands:

• The shotgun can arrest a civi whether innocent or not

• Squads will get their specialist with a shotgun to arrest a civi because it can be done at range, it is quicker and it avoids those civilian chasing moments with the restrainers which can lead to a trap

• The civilian will lose points WHETHER ORIGINALLY INNOCENT OR NOT and will receive a long spawn time in the same way that restrainers override whether a civilian was innocent or not

This simply leads to hardly anyone playing civi and making it a rarely used kit slot.

My opinion on how it could work:

• The shotgun will arrest the civi in the same way as a rifle

• In other words INNOCENT civis (not collaborated) will become martyrs when shot by the shotgun - thus stopping the massive respawn time they seem to receive when shot at any time by a shotgun

• The shotgun will KILL a collaborator civilian not ARREST them just as a rifle does hence winning Blufor no intel (i believe thats how the rifle system works)

• ARRESTING a civilian can only be achieved using the restrainers/melee

This will mean more people will be willing to play as civi as the only way they can get a huge respawn time is if they get restrained. Equally the restrainers will again become more used because the shotgun will not provide the intel, it will just kill a collaborating civi.

And for those civis who on rooftops or hiding places, it will make it far more challenging as the specialist will have to deploy his rope and send some of the squad up if they want to make the arrest, making the chances for insurgent ambushes caused by civilians again possible.

Well since 0.9 i've seen twice as many civilians in games as before, and pretty sure the shotgun has been able to arrest people before 0.9.
And you are still missing the point it seems, if a civilian goes into water (im sure they can swim) or goes up a ladder he is unable to be melee'd, the shotgun solves that.
Also you say this isn't a suggestion but you are clearly suggesting things :/

Why don't we just make it so if the civi get's shot with a shotgun, the BLUFOR still receives intel, maybe not as much, if that's possible on the engine, and the civi get's the standard 30 sec respawn time.

But if the civi gets restrained or is killed using melee, then they would suffer the full respawn time and the BLUFOR would receive full intel points.

Cause honestly, if you're civi, it's waay easier to get shot by a shotgun than get restrained or killed by melee.

Thats all well and good you can arrest a civilian from a distance, perhaps somewhere difficult to access and thats great for Blufor.
When it comes to the shotgun, as a civilian though, whether you've collaborated or not you are counted as a collaborator. Please explain how being shot by a shotgun makes all the difference from being shot by a rifle.

The class after all is called collaborator, you are expected to try and lure the enemy team into traps, as well as just heal your own team. But faced by a shotgun that forces you to have a massive respawn time whether you have done anything "bad" or not, how are you supposed to attempt to lure enemies into traps. The only way i've been able to is when a squad is without a specialist, and that basically sums up the situation.

and just reading your post Vapour:

Vapourstreak wrote: Cause honestly, if you're civi, it's waay easier to get shot by a shotgun than get restrained or killed by melee.

Exactly and that is why most blufor teams use the shotgun rather than the restrainers, which is bizarre as the shotgun is an offensive weapon which kills an insurgent in one hit so surely it would do the same to a civilian rather than magically arresting them

*edit again* (Cheditor yes I have suggested solutions to what i see as a problem, but only to illustrate where the problem actually lies. If this thread has to moved to suggestions then by all means and sorry it has been posted in the wrong place.)

Vapourstreak wrote:Why don't we just make it so if the civi get's shot with a shotgun, the BLUFOR still receives intel, maybe not as much, if that's possible on the engine, and the civi get's the standard 30 sec respawn time.

But if the civi gets restrained or is killed using melee, then they would suffer the full respawn time and the BLUFOR would receive full intel points.

Cause honestly, if you're civi, it's waay easier to get shot by a shotgun than get restrained or killed by melee.

I agree, completly.

If you are stupid enough to get restrained you should be punished.
It's just frustrating now to get shot in the face 50m away by a shotgun.