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Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 01:04
by =]H[=CubCadet1972
The TOW HMMV is essentially the same thing as a BRDM-2 Spandrel, a vehicle armed with a heavy Anti-Tank missle which is intended to destroy the OPFOR Armor. The BRDM-2 however requires a crewman kit, the TOW HMMV does not. The spawn time for each is 20 minutes. How about requiring a crewman kit for the TOW HMMV, at bare minimum, for the missile operator.
Draw backs: Limited use by random infantry squads.
Benefits: Limited use by random infantry squads. More balanced with the spandrel, And for the admin here, it would make a simple "If you require a crewman or pilot kit to operate it, it's a heavy asset" rule. No more confusion for guests to servers with an asset use rule.
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 02:06
by Infantry1242
that wouldnt be the best idea,as the draw backs are much more,because since its a heavy asset,infantry cannot use it in times of need,they need it to be called it.Also,it will run out of ammo on maps like Kashan and Silent Eagle and it WILL be hard to resupply.But,it could be effective.
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 02:31
by ComradeHX
Infantry1242 wrote:that wouldnt be the best idea,as the draw backs are much more,because since its a heavy asset,infantry cannot use it in times of need,they need it to be called it.Also,it will run out of ammo on maps like Kashan and Silent Eagle and it WILL be hard to resupply.But,it could be effective.
BRDM 2 also had to suffer from the same thing... even though the BRDM-2 is more awesome. Whether it is easy/hard to resupply depends on the friendlies in transport choppers and logi trucks.
Also, of course the TOW humvee need to be called... what did you expect people to do? Charge toward enemy infantries and get LATted?
I would not trust a "random inf squad" to use anything anti-tank related (stationary TOW, HAT...etc, including TOW humvee).
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 03:17
by Turner
this takes away a bit of the realism, I think its fine how it is, besides, I dont think you'd see a HMMWV rolling down the streets of Iraq with a crewman in the gunner seat. I say leave it.
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 03:42
by Bringerof_D
the BRDM-2 requires crewmen because it is built as an APC whereas a TOW Humvee is a car which is meant for infantry use. Although in comparison the two vehicles can be considered in the same class, the base vehicle is what it is. Infantry are trained to use the TOW, not so sure if that is teh case for the Spandrell
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 04:12
by Hunt3r
I say change the BRDM-2 to only require a crewman on the gunner seat, it doesn't require any more special training then the Humvees to drive.
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 04:39
by Bringerof_D
Hunt3r wrote:I say change the BRDM-2 to only require a crewman on the gunner seat, it doesn't require any more special training then the Humvees to drive.
I do agree on that aspect however it also depends on the vehicle's role within the military. The US army used TOW humvees in conjunction with infantry within an infantry unit. However the russians probably have the BRDM2 spandrell work within an armor unit to support infantry. THAT is the difference between requiring a crewman kit and an infantry kit. Crewmen are trained to use vehicle specific tactics to support, Infantry uses infantry tactics.
i dont know if thats easy enough to understand but i hope the way i worded it is clear enough.
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 14:25
by goguapsy
Bringerof_D wrote:I do agree on that aspect however it also depends on the vehicle's role within the military. The US army used TOW humvees in conjunction with infantry within an infantry unit. However the russians probably have the BRDM2 spandrell work within an armor unit to support infantry. THAT is the difference between requiring a crewman kit and an infantry kit. Crewmen are trained to use vehicle specific tactics to support, Infantry uses infantry tactics.
i dont know if thats easy enough to understand but i hope the way i worded it is clear enough.
Yes.
Besides, I thought the rule about crewman kits was on armored vehicles? (spandrel > armor than HMMVV)
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 15:53
by =]H[=CubCadet1972
The T.O.W. Requires specialized training to operate IRL. A crewman kit for the gunner would signify the specialized training required to properly operate a T.O.W.
This would probably apply to deployed T.O.W.s as well.
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 18:40
by killonsight95
'= wrote:H[=CubCadet1972;1436056']The T.O.W. Requires specialized training to operate IRL. A crewman kit for the gunner would signify the specialized training required to properly operate a T.O.W.
This would probably apply to deployed T.O.W.s as well.
this and also this should be included for using the TOW as well.
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 18:46
by Rabbit
'= wrote:H[=CubCadet1972;1436056']The T.O.W. Requires specialized training to operate IRL. A crewman kit for the gunner would signify the specialized training required to properly operate a T.O.W.
This would probably apply to deployed T.O.W.s as well.
Everyone in my unit knows how to operate one...
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 18:52
by dtacs
gx wrote:Everyone in my unit knows how to operate one...
You're in an Airborne unit right? Is it standard infantry training to operate a TOW?
Would it be different at all for one mounted on a Humvee?
Honestly I don't think this should be implemented. The TOW Humvee represents an asymmetrical advantage of being a fast moving AT platform whilst still being extremely vulnerable to small arms and above just like its OPFOR equivalent the Spandrel, this would just make it an asset which can't be used by proper infantry squads (which is how it is curently used in my experience)
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 18:56
by Rabbit
dtacs wrote:You're in an Airborne unit right? Is it standard infantry training to operate a TOW?
Would it be different at all for one mounted on a Humvee?
I used to be. I'm in a national guard unit now. And we still all know it.
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-07 21:33
by Unit3d_Kill3r
I don't think this would be beneficial of "Reality" within the Project. Most soldier will know how to fire that in real life and there is not a specific training whereas with APCs and Tanks, there is.
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-08 04:54
by =]H[=CubCadet1972
Unit3d_Kill3r wrote:I don't think this would be beneficial of "Reality" within the Project. Most soldier will know how to fire that in real life and there is not a specific training whereas with APCs and Tanks, there is.
Really? No offense, but I call bs on that.
The last class on the firing range at Fort Drum only had 48 students.
12 crews in an entire Brigade.
See link below.
Fort Drum - The Mountaineer Online
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-08 05:39
by Rabbit
'= wrote:H[=CubCadet1972;1436700']Really? No offense, but I call bs on that.
The last class on the firing range at Fort Drum only had 48 students.
12 crews in an entire Brigade.
See link below.
Fort Drum - The Mountaineer Online
You don't have to fire it to know how to use it. Most people receive a familiarization class. For example out MRAP crew gunners got to go through all the classes and fire all the weapons, everyone else did the classes and still knows how to operate them. Same with out javelin gunners. Only 6 went to the school. But they came back and taught us.
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-08 05:53
by Kim Jong ill
No real training aye? So why is there a field manual on
'TACTICAL EMPLOYMENT OF ANTIARMOR PLATOONS, COMPANIES, AND BATTALIONS'?
Take a nice read through the contents of that manual, if you do not believe that TOW crews do not undergo special training in both the operation of their equipment and the tactics of it's employment, then you are seriously deluded.
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-08 05:57
by Rabbit
Kim Jong ill wrote:No real training aye? So why is there a field manual on
'TACTICAL EMPLOYMENT OF ANTIARMOR PLATOONS, COMPANIES, AND BATTALIONS'?
Take a nice read through the contents of that manual, if you do not believe that TOW crews do not undergo special training in both the operation of their equipment and the tactics of it's employment, then you are seriously deluded.
I know they do, I'm just saying they come back and tell you what they learned, so if need be anyone can use it...
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-08 06:22
by Kim Jong ill
You obviously didn't take a single look at that manual, TOW Humvees cannot be compared to a weapon system such as a Javelin or a CROWS. They are employed at a Battalion, Company and Platoon level much their heavy brethren the MBT.
FM 7-91 wrote: This chapter discusses how the separate antiarmor battalion should be employed on the battlefield. The employment techniques in this chapter concern the effective use of the antiarmor battalion units within the framework of combined arms missions and capabilities.
5-1. FUNCTIONS
a. The separate antiarmor battalion provides heavy, reinforcing antitank fires to maneuver units. It is a corps asset whose subunits are usually attached to divisions or brigades, depending on where they are needed most. A corps commander will usually attach the entire battalion to a division. The division commander may then further attach the antiarmor companies to his maneuver brigades or battalions. The antiarmor companies are then employed by the units to which they are attached.
b. The separate antiarmor battalion gives the supported maneuver commander maximum flexibility. It is equipped with M151 's and M966's and can therefore move rapidly by road or cross-country to critical points on the battlefield.
From this if you cannot grasp the concept that TOW Humvees are not some toy of the infantry to play with and are an asset much the same as an MBT or AAV then once again, you are seriously deluded.
Re: Tow HMMV, Crewman kit required
Posted: 2010-09-08 06:24
by Rabbit
Or HHC is based with us, and they taught us how to operate them. I'm just saying personal experience> FM