Project Reality Forums

Posted: **2010-10-06 10:50**

Here I present two suggestions to A: Help lengthen long-range firefights and B: Reward players who use proper building tactics and cover corners more slowly.

Suggestion A: Increase the size of a completely settled assault rifle deviation cone to something slightly larger than a human torso at a range of 200-250+ meters.

This suggestion will reduce the laser accuracy of firearms at these distances, rewarding the team which concentrates volume of fire to enemy forces rather than simply shooting perfectly accurate lasers at them at this distance. CQB will still be unaffected because the circle will still be the size of a human at lesser distances.
Again, the rewards are

Rewards teams who put more weapons on the same target.

Increase the length of firefights by reducing long range hit chances.

Leaves close quarters fights relatively the same.

Suggestion B: Decrease the unsettle rate for soldiers with their scopes up while walking.

I propose a 25% speed reduction for these guys. Therefore, for a fictional weapon. If it takes me 10 seconds to settle from completely unsettled to settled, and I settle behind a corner. Normally walking for 4 seconds would force me to wait another 4 seconds to be settled. However, with this change I would only need to stay still for 3 to 2.5 seconds so long as I only walked for 4 seconds. As I'm also suggesting this for panning the weapon around, this would promote players using proper building clearing tactics such as stacking up behind a corner and waiting rather than just rushing around, going to prone and spamming automatic or burst fire. However, this would only work for players with their scopes up in front of their face. Forcing them to contend with the obvious disadvantages of having your scope up. Due to the obvious discomfort of doing this while crouched with a few dozen kgs of gear on, it is also possible that this bonus should only be given to players who are standing up with their scopes raised. Perhaps, too a 10% speed bonus could be given to standing players who have their scopes raised to promote proper building clearing tactics.

Thanks for reading
-Helios/USA-forever932

Posted: **2010-10-06 11:17**

USA-Forever932 wrote:Here I present two suggestions to A: Help lengthen long-range firefights and B: Reward players who use proper building tactics and cover corners more slowly.

Suggestion A: Increase the size of a completely settled assault rifle deviation cone to something slightly larger than a human torso at a range of 200-250+ meters.

Suggestion B: Decrease the unsettle rate for soldiers with their scopes up while walking.

Thanks for reading
-Helios/USA-forever932

You do know most rifles are supposed to be accurate well above 250m (excluding the ak).

Posted: **2010-10-06 11:20**

So your basically suggesting increase the deviation cone but lower the time it takes people to sight in and have "max" accuracy. It would be nice considering in PR firefights generally last for 30 seconds to a min before casualties start popping up. I like it but i can see myself and a lot of other people getting frustrated by this. On top of that its pretty unrealistic and most likly wont make it.

Posted: **2010-10-06 11:59**

Actually, what I'm suggesting is to only at 250m+ where you are at max deviation is to simply increase the cone so that your currently 100% chance of hitting your mark (probably a someone's head ) would go down to a 90% or 80% chance of hitting. It wouldn't make a huge drastic difference. It would just reduce the number of spot on shots by slightly increasing the area that your rounds could land in. Of course, as I said this would only effect firefights at distances of 200-250+ meters.

Posted: **2010-10-06 12:03**

Killer2354 wrote:You do know most rifles are supposed to be accurate well above 250m (excluding the ak).

I shoot 303 for fun which are much like 7.62 and i can say for sure shooting at those ranges is absolutely nothing like a video game it is infact very difficult

And yes they do say that that the assault rifles are rated be accurate up to that range, but as soon as you add even a tiny bit a wind it can really throw you off by a impressive margin,

Some times in high wind iv had to adjust my aim 3 cm just to get on target, and then to make matters even worse wind is not exactly a constant force it can ebbs and flows meaning you can not accurately predict the force it will exert on the bullet which can make your calculation imprecise.

And then to make things really really interesting you got to hold the rifle completely steady which is impossible and at the same time compensate for the conditions.

not so easy is it.

But to tell the truth it is actually more fun because of it.

Posted: **2010-10-06 12:05**

I would also like to point out that obviously as range increased the probability of a hit would also decrease. Depending on where the maximum settle is placed.

Posted: **2010-10-06 13:26**

No offense, but this whole idea of trying to prolong firefights is stupid.
This is a game, when players realize that their weapons are combat ineffective, they won't have the patience for them, and will use other weapons that CAN kill people, like TOW launchers, sniper rifles, etc.

Honestly, why even take rifles into combat if they are a liability to the squad?

Posted: **2010-10-06 14:01**

While HATs are ineffective. what's wrong with the proliferation of CAS calls, Designated Marksmen, calls for armor support and the widespread encouragement of the use of Grenadier and the like? If squads can only take so many of these into the field, then there will be a greater emphasis on keeping these kits alive and with squads to promote saftey. Besides. These are only Long range engagements we're talking about here, where these kits should be allowed to shine at 250+ meters. However they aren't because of laser accurate soldiers no matter what distance you have.

Posted: **2010-10-06 14:48**

USA-Forever932 wrote:Suggestion A: Increase the size of a completely settled assault rifle deviation cone to something slightly larger than a human torso at a range of 200-250+ meters.

Project REALITY.

Most assault rifles are accurate up to 300m - that's a single person firing at a single target should hit every shot. Only reason they'd miss is if they aim incorrectly.

RHYS if you're not hitting at 250m there's something wrong with you, especially if you use a scope.

Not holding the rifle steady is easily compensated for if you gently allow the shaking to turn into a D movement and fire at the bottom of the curve.

Posted: **2010-10-06 14:52**

i totaly agree with the first suggestion, doing this will increase the use of marksmen kits, and hopefully if the sniper kit is removed then it'll create a more interesting enviroment for players to play in, and how are thye a liability exactly, they'd only be thta if they shot forwards and then the bullet turns around and shoots at your own team, which seems to happen anyway in PR considering a lot of the "ceasse fire" over coms.

Posted: **2010-10-06 14:58**

You forget the amazing power that is the BluFor AR.... like the NEGEV.

He'll make you rage even more at long ranges like that. Other than that I would like distanced firefights to last longer and be about movement and manuvering.

Posted: **2010-10-06 15:23**

...I personally enjoy deviation the way it is because .7 made me hate everyone for the longest time. I think it's a good balance now.

Posted: **2010-10-06 15:31**

killonsight95 wrote:and how are thye a liability exactly,

Any weapon that isn't very good at range is a liability because it'll force a squad to get a Marksman kit, and there won't be one for each squad, especially as you'll lose them as the game goes on. It'll encourage sitting back with a sniper rifle taking out squads because they can't respond for any ranges greater than 200m.

Posted: **2010-10-06 15:55**

i like the suggestion and it would be safe to say most soldiers couldnt hit a man sized taget at 250m or greater unsuported.
and one way to remedy this would be..as i have suggested before, to make it where every weapon is like the Alqud. where you have a undeployed and deployed setting... deployed setting taking alot longer to settle and would normaly be used in defensive postures. but for these weapons that dont have bipods...you can call it supported and unsupported.

Posted: **2010-10-06 16:00**

Killer2354 wrote:You do know most rifles are supposed to be accurate well above 250m (excluding the ak).

Actually, INCLUDING the ak.

unless you are firing a khyberpass custom...

ytman wrote:You forget the amazing power that is the BluFor AR.... like the NEGEV.

He'll make you rage even more at long ranges like that. Other than that I would like distanced firefights to last longer and be about movement and manuvering.

Cannot manuver around bullets...

---------------------------------------
What needs to be fixed is the CQB battles (currently named spray-and-pray) in which deviation makes your shots go all over the place.

Posted: **2010-10-06 16:05**

Well, here's the deal. The suggestion carries absolutely nothing about negating the effects of rifles at 200-250+ meters. All that it says is that, if you look at the statistics, firing 10 theoretical rounds at a target 250 or so meters away will produce two theoretical misses. That's it. There's nothing so inhibiting about this. Ten rounds fired, eight rounds hit. I really can't see where you've gotten the whole "Rifles will be useless because of this at 250 meters."

All it said is that the maximum deviation will be 20% bigger than a person's head at that distance. Really, someone's head is pretty small that far away. It could even be a longer distance like 300m. Even still, all that it says is that 300m targets will be hit 80 or 90% of the time rather than a straight 100%. Honestly, I can't see what's so debilitating about that that you would suggest that people would stop taking these kits wholesale for HATs and Snipers when the game limits them to only two.

EDIT:

What about suggestion B? Where people with their scopes raised will increase the size of the deviation cone at a lower rate than those who are jogging with their scopes down.

Posted: **2010-10-06 16:14**

USA-Forever932 wrote:
What about suggestion B? Where people with their scopes raised will increase the size of the deviation cone at a lower rate than those who are jogging with their scopes down.

I like that one.

It makes shouldering the rifle in CQB more useful than just lowering walking speed.

Posted: **2010-10-06 16:23**

After thinking about both suggestions for a while I think it would be best implementing the second. Although I strongly agree with the idea that firefights should be longer with a high volume of fire, there are a few downsides that significantly weaker the current (first) idea.

The first downside I can think of is that the AR would be incredibly difficult to take down at range. Flanking and shooting at an AR requires both a small maximum deviation and a low settle time. If the deviation is too high, an AR with it's very low deviation will simply hose down all opponents. I have had firefights won against me in which I watched the AR set up at a distance which is disgraceful. It seems at the moment if you're a standard rifleman and an AR sets up further than 200m, you're screwed.

The second is a weakening of combat between individuals as often happens in this mod. With current settle times changed it would be more difficult to get a guy walking into your prepared position.

However the second (idea) could be implemented with no real downsides. Imo, "scoped up" walking should be strongly encouraged by the deviation settings at the moment.

Posted: **2010-10-06 16:54**

In my humble opinion... I like both suggestions.

2nd one is obviously nice, encouraging red-dot building clearance (even though the ACOG has a CQB sight on top of it, should take a better look into it, see if it is actually realistic, and not un-rewarding to SUSATs and ACOGs alike).

The 1st one is a winner in my opinion. I really REALLY find it almost useless to maneuver on an enemy if he has 1 inch of his head out. Adding this deviation minimum would be so good for gameplay in my opinion because it would reward maneuvering and smoke tactics. ALSO, I think it would be more realistic... considering you've been jogging and sprinting non-stop for the last 5 minutes at least.

Makes sense? I like both ideas.

Posted: **2010-10-06 18:54**

I think this might be a good idea, because even with deviation if someone is crossing a street sees another guy crossing the street 2-300m away they will both go prone and start sniping at each other. Inessence this idea would increase deviation at greater ranges.
The second cqb one sounds nifty too

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