Project Reality Forums

i am no millitary expert my self but i find it impossible to believe that suck hi tech helicopters and jets would be equipped with so few counter measures. i cant seem to find a number anywhere when im searching.. as its so hard to do cas runs on maps like kashan in a helicopter when your going so slowly and 5 flares drops are barely enough for you to be in out and back to base with rando dangers around the map such as base noobing AA's

if anyone can prove that the actualy flare count on a attack helicopter is 30 then i'll be stunned.. thanks guys

AFAIK the KA-50 has like 128 countermeasures.

It varies IRL depending on the Mission/Risk/Pilots Pref.

I guess this is a balance thing, but it has also been suggested to increase the number of flares a few times.
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr-bf2-suggestions/76396-flares-2.html

However, I think the amount off flares in game, is enough to transport one squad into the City on Muttrah and get away safely. After that you have to reload them, same for your crate, so choppers are fine if you ask me.

On planes it's hard to say, you don't want to land too often to reload your flares, you can do flyby's at low speed..

But irl safety comes first, in-game we got Game Play and it should be fun and balanced for both the pilot and AA operator..

Well, i'm not sure about attack helicopters, but I would image they would have more than just 30, probably about 60 would be my best guess.

I know that F16s usually have 30 flares and 60 chaff bundles on a standard mission loadout, but then again- there's no chaff in PR, only flares.

Anyway, I'd like to see more flares on attack helis as well, or at least make them release in pairs instead of bursts of six, so that you can use them more sparingly (It also would be more realistic, as you can only release them in pairs IRL).

It'd be interesting to see how the new gameplay mechanics will change the Air to Ground battle.

30 is enough imo, you just have to use them wisely

There is a lot that aint realistic. Realistic gameplay would be 80 insurgents killed by mortars and airstrikes and Nato soldiers with new material to put on youtube.

Real life jetcombat can be rather unexciting if simulators are accurate, you cruise, your radar spots the enemy before you are spotted, you fire a radar guided missile, the blimp dissapears from your radar screen.

Thats almost how air combat is now but all within visual range. You fly in circles searching see enemy jet, fire two missles ad jet down 90% of the time even if he sees you move inbehind.

atleast up them to that of chinook 60 flares would be a great improvement

Cassius wrote:
Real life jetcombat can be rather unexciting if simulators are accurate, you cruise, your radar spots the enemy before you are spotted, you fire a radar guided missile, the blimp dissapears from your radar screen.

It's a lot more complicated than you make it out to be, it's not often as simple as that.

'Andy[EEF wrote:;1458500']Well, i'm not sure about attack helicopters, but I would image they would have more than just 30, probably about 60 would be my best guess.

I know that F16s usually have 30 flares and 60 chaff bundles on a standard mission loadout, but then again- there's no chaff in PR, only flares.

Anyway, I'd like to see more flares on attack helis as well, or at least make them release in pairs instead of bursts of six, so that you can use them more sparingly (It also would be more realistic, as you can only release them in pairs IRL).

But the F-16s CMD system is modular, should there be no need for the chaff, it can be replaced with more flares. And the Block 40s that we are depicted ingame have provisions for 240 combined expendable countermeasures.

Drunkenup wrote:But the F-16s CMD system is modular, should there be no need for the chaff, it can be replaced with more flares. And the Block 40s that we are depicted ingame have provisions for 240 combined expendable countermeasures.

Yeah, true. But I was just saying in general that's what the standard loadout usually is in a mixed threat environment. I suppose that's why the flare count is 30 and not higher (in jets), as the maps which have them on would probably need chaff as well as flares because of radar guided SAM sites, since the maps are the front line of two armies- jets would probably be in their effective range.

Unfortunatley though, flares are the only countermeasures available in the BF2 engine. I'm not really complaining about it being 30 in jets, as it would probably be the same amount in reality if the jet were to be carrying chaff at the same time.

'Andy[EEF wrote:;1459486']Yeah, true. But I was just saying in general that's what the standard loadout usually is in a mixed threat environment. I suppose that's why the flare count is 30 and not higher (in jets), as the maps which have them on would probably need chaff as well as flares because of radar guided SAM sites, since the maps are the front line of two armies- jets would probably be in their effective range.

Unfortunatley though, flares are the only countermeasures available in the BF2 engine. I'm not really complaining about it being 30 in jets, as it would probably be the same amount in reality if the jet were to be carrying chaff at the same time.

Although in theory flares serve the same function as chaff in game so there should be the same amount.

Its fine. It would be better if X makes 2 flares drop so you can conserve flares.

I think it would be even better to just drop 1 at a time, instead of the cluster it drops.

I don't really see how having more flares would unbalance the game.

When I'm flying an attack chopper, if I get a missile lock I'm gonna drp flares and get the hell outta there. Most pilots would do the same, I'm sure, since the AA missiles in PR are so dangerous and helicopters are so precious.

So if an Apache in PR had, say, 70 flares, all that would mean is that a pilot would have a higher chance of surviving once he gets a missile lock.
He wouldn't go "Oh, there's a missile lock, I'm gonna spam 70 flares and look for the AA so I can hit it with a Hellfire".
He would go "Oh, ****, AA, I'm getting outta here", and luckily because he has enough flares, he can actually escape.

Bceause I can tell you from experience it can be quite annoying to fly into an area in a chopper, occaisonally dropping flares to guard against AA, and then suddenly get a missile lock and boom, you're dead, and the flares don't do anything.
Not so much of a problem now that they improved the spread of the flares (that was very good, thank you DEVs), but it could be easily corrected if the flare counts were somewhat higher.

The flares count is too low, and the helicopters still drop them 5 at a time, and still, it's whoever sees who first, which is not cool. It's all luck, no skill anyways.

it's so people don't just flare the whole time they do runs. Since helicopters right now in PR are completely 100% unrealistic, only good tactics are doing quick runs, then returning to main base. IRL They have more flares because they will actually last a long time in the air.. in PR they will not.

Dev1200 wrote:it's so people don't just flare the whole time they do runs. Since helicopters right now in PR are completely 100% unrealistic, only good tactics are doing quick runs, then returning to main base. IRL They have more flares because they will actually last a long time in the air.. in PR they will not.

The Westland AH mk1 Apache has 90 minutes of fuel on a load Charlie (including there and back to base) and it has the appropriate amount of flares however there is no fuel system in PR there fore I'm assuming is why there is such a low flare count, however an extra 12 flares the the helicopters wouldn't go a miss...