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I'm sorry if this is a resuggestion but I couldn't find any similar threads on this matter.

Recently I've been thinking about a way we could nerf down the TOW or at least demoralise the "TOW sniping" in such way that it can't be abused as much as it has been since it's introduction.

I think we can all agree that "TOW sniping" is totally garbage and in some cases very game breaking.
I.e. I was playing Operation Archer yesterday as an insurgent and the Canadian forces built a FOB inside the Dome Of Death and set up a TOW with it. From there they could rape the hell out of the insurgents since one of the caches was located at the construction site and many of the insurgents were around that area.

Then I thought: "Why does the blueforces even have TOWs on isurgency maps?"

There's no need for TOWs on insurgency maps at all. They are only being used for taking out insurgency infantry at long range and perhaps some bombcars as well but I hardly think that bombcars justify the use of a TOW. Not even in real life.

So could we please look at the possibility of taking TOWs out of the insurgency maps?

TOW sniping is realistic

[R-DEV]ZZEZ wrote:TOW sniping is realistic

About $180,000 on single insurgent... REALLY ?

I dont care about tows..... snipe them and that's all.

[R-DEV]ZZEZ wrote:TOW sniping is realistic

source?

Well apparently they can piss off insurgents since they can shoot at markers by BVR-Shooting.

But it has been said that their effectiveness will be drastically reduced in .95 so maybe let's wait for the release to see what happened?

i thought insurgents mite be getting a weapon similar to the tow like the one seen in the trailer at like 3:41.

ConscriptVirus wrote:i thought insurgents mite be getting a weapon similar to the tow like the one seen in the trailer at like 3:41.

Yeah but they actually serve a purpose since there are heavy armor to engage for the incurgencies.

Sgt. Mahi wrote:source?

What your seeing is IDF AT teams sniping terrorists in Gaza, in the 2nd video you can even see them trying to run.

Gameplay takes precedence over realism, always. Saying something should be changed, implemented, or left alone for the sole reason that "it's realistic" is a poor argument. If realism was the ultimate goal of the mod, why can T72's stand toe to toe with NATO MBT's in-game, while similar engagements in recent history have been completely lopsided?

To the OP, I wouldn't worry too much about additional TOW nerfs because nerfs have already been made for 0.95. Let's see how those changes work, first.

billdan wrote:why can T72's stand toe to toe with NATO MBT's in-game, while similar engagements in recent history have been completely lopsided?

Because MEC's 1337 T72 are upgraded with better armor, engine, and newest guns (look at russian T72 upgrades for details).

Personally, I have no problem with idiots in Blufor taking HAT.. as you know the HAT guy is not going to go for the cache (CQB HAT??? I thought LAT CQB was the upper limit to stupidness)... and if we get the HAT... more win for us.

'[R-DEV wrote:ZZEZ;1459992']



What your seeing is IDF AT teams sniping terrorists in Gaza, in the 2nd video you can even see them trying to run.

Hmm I see your point, good sir . Well there goes my main argument down the drain

Edit: But for the sake of the gameplay... I still think it's fair. We'll se what changes 0.95 will bring

ConscriptVirus wrote:i thought insurgents mite be getting a weapon similar to the tow like the one seen in the trailer at like 3:41.

Thats not a TOW its a Recoilless rifle a.k.a WOMBAT
(Weapon Of Magnesium, Battalion Anti Tank). basically a Cannon with a Flat trajectory, can also be tipped and fired as a mortar.

The post above this one is why i admire the IDF, when they go to war they leave nothing

ZZEZ is that an IDF airship? if it is whats it for apart from flying?

If Marines JDAM snipers, i'm willing to bet it's realistic. Though, for the sake of gameplay, i'm not sure where to go with that.

weixman wrote:About $180,000 on single insurgent... REALLY ?

Blufor already wastes an insane amount of bullets per insurgent, why not a TOW?

Uday and Qusay Hussein were TOW spammed

Source

At 1 p.m., forces on the ground fired 10 tube-launched optically tracked wire- guided missiles, commonly called TOWs, into the house. "We believe that it is likely that the TOW missile attack was what wound up killing three of the adults," Sanchez said.

You may keep discussing the gameplay reasoning behind such a decision, but it is certainly not realistic in any way, shape, or form.

If INS are getting RR's and mortars, surely Bluefor will need TOW's more than ever in insurgency now?

Hitman.2.5 wrote: ZZEZ is that an IDF airship? if it is whats it for apart from flying?

Its some sort of a surveillance/jamming zeppelin, I don't know if it ever lands tho.

[R-DEV]ZZEZ wrote:TOW sniping is realistic

It is indeed realistic and there is even a clip on youtube where a french squad sicks an erix round against a group of insurgents. Maybe the radius can be revised, if that particular round really has as large an effective radius against infantery. If it does, Maybe the number of rounds can be reduce to 5 or even 4, so that choices need to be made, sniping infantery or disabling armor/bomb cars.

'[R-MOD wrote:BloodBane611;1460033']
You may keep discussing the gameplay reasoning behind such a decision, but it is certainly not realistic in any way, shape, or form.

Uday and Qusay were not run of the mill Insurgents and I don't have to expalin why.

Deliberately building one in the Karbala desert to simply kill lone Insurgents is the definition of unrealistic. The videos that ZZEZ showed above weren't TOW's at all, they were rounds from the Israeli Spike ATGM which, like the Javelin, is used against enemy personnel.



The TOW on the other hand is a dedicated anti armor weapon which requires training on how to operate it properly. I sincerely doubt that a TOW would be specifically set up for the sole purpose of killing an enemy combatant as much as it is in PR.

Awhile ago I set up a TOW to shoot buildings in the B3 area on Karbala to destroy a cache. Shooting over 20 shots (IIRC, rebuilding twice), that equates to over $3.6 million US dollars worth of hardware used by a single soldier, when trained infantry are meant to do the job.

Do you honestly think that this is a realistic alternative to actually using clearing tactics to get the cache?

Is it realistic that a sniper, infantry officer, medic or simple grunt can use a system which takes special training?

As this article states, the TOW can - and is - used for fire support in tandem with infantry, currently in PR, it is used as as a sniper for the sole purpose of killing infantry. I think its safe to assume the TOW is used against infantry and snipers much much more than it is used to kill armor.