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What do you think it'll be like? More deadly for the crewmen, or more survivable? Will tanks be able to stay almost all round, or will they quickly be destroyed in attrition?

My honest opinion is that armor combat will be a lot more survivable on maps like Kashan if you have FLIR. Those crewing the Bradley, maybe not so much, but they now have to play more realistically. No more attempts at being offensive tank destroyers. More recon and autocannon support.

At least vs Inf alot more survival, like the DEVs have said Armor will be feared again. More people hiding rather than just going, 'oh just grab the hat kit' attitude. Armor vs armor will be fairly interesting though.

What changed with armor other than thermal?

'= wrote:H[=Rissien;1465988']At least vs Inf alot more survival, like the DEVs have said Armor will be feared again. More people hiding rather than just going, 'oh just grab the hat kit' attitude. Armor vs armor will be fairly interesting though.

^This.

Not to forget that Attack Choppers also have FLIR so Armour will have to work harder in order to survive on certain maps.

Smeggles wrote:^This.

Not to forget that Attack Choppers also have FLIR so Armour will have to work harder in order to survive on certain maps.

If armor spots the attack helo first, Sabot/HEAT/HEI-T beats Hellfire flying at Mach 2. Just going to have to see whether the click-to-target missiles stay the course to impact or somehow deviate off course like the current LG missiles.

Bringing an AAV along for the ride in .95 surely will be worth a lot more then it is now.

Armor vs Armor will be much the same, except visual contact will be easier to achieve, and you can no longer run from engagements if you're caught in the open, at least, without getting shot like fish in a barrel.

darklord63 wrote:What changed with armor other than thermal?

It's enough for a big change of gameplay

darklord63 wrote:What changed with armor other than thermal?

Oh, and Bradleys must wait 15 seconds before being able to fire their TOW after stopping, regardless of whether it was previously loaded.

darklord63 wrote:What changed with armor other than thermal?

MBT's/IFV's/APC's all had their hitpoints increased but had their "critical state" increased as well. Mostly this just means that crew/passengers have more time to bail before the vehicle explodes.

All MBT's/IFV's/APC's have had their traverse speeds lowered to a more realistic rate.

MG overheating has been standardised all over. This applies to all coaxial MG's (they wont overheat so quickly any more)

Can't think of other changes atm.....

Hunt3r wrote:If armor spots the attack helo first, Sabot/HEAT/HEI-T beats Hellfire flying at Mach 2.

Won't be as easy to do that any more with the lowered traverse speeds.

Hunt3r wrote:Just going to have to see whether the click-to-target missiles stay the course to impact or somehow deviate off course like the current LG missiles.

We'll have to see what it's like on a full server, but every time I used them in testing, or saw them being used, they were really effective. As in, they go exactly where you click.

Hunt3r wrote: Bringing an AAV along for the ride in .95 surely will be worth a lot more then it is now.

Definitely.

[R-DEV]Jaymz wrote:Won't be as easy to do that any more with the lowered traverse speeds.

If the driver spots it, with a bit of luck, it'll be one dead attack helicopter.

[R-DEV]Jaymz wrote:We'll have to see what it's like on a full server, but every time I used them in testing, or saw them being used, they were really effective. As in, they go exactly where you click.

The question is where they go when the attack helo firing the missile is destroyed...

Im sure they keep going to where they were last targeted, like any other guided missle in game. If you fire a missle *say wire guided for instance* and die before impact itl just keep going in the direction it was last going towards when the operator died.

Hunt3r wrote:The question is where they go when the attack helo firing the missile is destroyed...

I had to gave them zero gravity to avoid issues with redirection in flight so they will keep flying straight.

'= wrote:H[=Rissien;1466025']Im sure they keep going to where they were last targeted, like any other guided missle in game. If you fire a missle *say wire guided for instance* and die before impact itl just keep going in the direction it was last going towards when the operator died.

The current TOW missiles will drop like stones once the gunner is killed.

Hunt3r wrote:The current TOW missiles will drop like stones once the gunner is killed.

This happens with TOW emplacements and HAT's as well, incredibly frustrating when you get the shot off but you're engaged by coaxial before the missile hits.

Honestly I play infantry 95% of the time and I'm not fussed about thermals, sure they increase the deadlyness of armor and choppers but one must remember that it goes both ways - choppers appear white on a black sky which is even more outstanding than the armor on the ground.

Hunt3r wrote: Armor vs Armor will be much the same, except visual contact will be easier to achieve, and you can no longer run from engagements if you're caught in the open, at least, without getting shot like fish in a barrel.

Mythbuster did a test and found out that fish in a barrel have very high survivability.

...

Anyway, Infantry got the most problems: less effective HAT, no enemy HAT(for winning in numbers), and FLIR...

I am considering training to be a competent Tank MG gunner.

Hunt3r wrote:My honest opinion is that armor combat will be a lot more survivable on maps like Kashan if you have FLIR. Those crewing the Bradley, maybe not so much, but they now have to play more realistically. No more attempts at being offensive tank destroyers. More recon and autocannon support.

i think its going to degrade acutal armor crews into pubbers. whoever get off the first 3 shots wins.

[R-DEV]Jaymz wrote:MBT's/IFV's/APC's all had their hitpoints increased but had their "critical state" increased as well. Mostly this just means that crew/passengers have more time to bail before the vehicle explodes.

i was always taught to go down with the vehical. the enemy is just going to mow you down when you get out anyway, so be a man and go own with the ship.

ComradeHX wrote:Mythbuster did a test and found out that fish in a barrel have very high survivability.

They found that the shock wave itself will kill the fish, you don't even have to hit them.
First 30 seconds. YouTube - Obliterating a Fish In A Barrel: Mythbusters


Every change seems to be toward making Armor a much more feared asset for infantry.
As an Inf SL & Experienced HAT operator, I approve these changes and have one thing to state:
Bring it on, suckers.

Wh33lman wrote:i was always taught to go down with the vehical. the enemy is just going to mow you down when you get out anyway, so be a man and go own with the ship.

Well, now you have enough time to possibly cripple a tank before death. Which is good.

FLIR does nothing to change how armor operations should be conducted. You still should be using cover, using IFVs for recce, with 3-4 scout dismounts.

Hunt3r wrote: FLIR does nothing to change how armor operations should be conducted. You still should be using cover, using IFVs for recce, with 3-4 scout dismounts.

With the UAV and MMS/optics on the Kiowa/Wasp that won't really be nessecary anymore, the UAV overwatching an armor squad moving around will be able to identify and mark targets before they even come into view distance of the friendly tanks.

I think atk choppers will reign supreme with FLIR, I'm already shaking in my tin-can.

As for infantry, things are looking a lot less survivable. We're going to have to hide more and make our AT assets count.

I'm looking forward to seeing how these shifts in balance effect over-all game-play.

dtacs wrote:With the UAV and MMS/optics on the Kiowa/Wasp that won't really be nessecary anymore, the UAV overwatching an armor squad moving around will be able to identify and mark targets before they even come into view distance of the friendly tanks.

UAVs can't be up all the time, scout helos can't be up all the time AND cannot go into areas with AA. While it would be NICE, you will always want the IFV and the dismounts to deal with potential threats, methodically clearing out the area, tanks in tow.

IFVs and Tanks in a modified hunter-killer platoon allows one to be able to punch with fingers spread, but spread to gouge the eyes, rather than have a solid fist to punch blindly.