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Every time I man mortars, I just ask my team mates to place a fire mission marker anywhere and just call out the map coordinates of where they need mortars.

So if we really dont need this complicated, and IMHO broken, distance estimation scheme, then why do we have it? Its very presense seems to mislead players into thinking that it is necessary so they are reluctant to call fire support.

Anyway, my second question is about UGLs, specifically the M203. Does anyone else notice that the ACOG is in the way of the actual grenade sight? If so, how can I correct for this?

You have good point there.

Yeah, fire mission is broken. Sadly this means that spotter thing is only a illusion. I thought this will be another asset that needs teamwork (and will be most rewarding) to operate with maximum efficient

Currently mortars work like this (if players manage to work it out that object doesn't have to be spotted): call fire mission anywhere on the map and spam mortars on map markers, objectives, possible enemy locations, caches, etc - additionally fill them instantly with ammo bags. This is quite crazy on insurgency maps when you can clear all enemies on caches with only spaming mortars on them since cache marker is now very close to the real target.

There would be nothing wrong with this mortar spam if it would require some kind of teamwork or spotter at least.

I much prefer the new system although it takes a bit to get used to.
If we had the old system with these new mortars, squad leaders wouldn't even have to spot anything. They could just put a marker on the map and you could hit it without being in danger. It has to be this way pretty much.

This is just the second day into the patch, everyone will be adapting with the changes soon.

I haven't used the blufor UGL yet.


There is actually only 1 question on your part, the other is feedback.

Wait until that forum unlocks.

Perhaps the mortar could be fixed this way:

Squad leader places marker at enemy position and calls for mortar strike

Mortar crewman has to confirm that marker by placing his own marker onto it. He can only do that when a marker is present. He can also only do that every x minutes. He can only shoot when HIS marker is present.

That would limit the rate of fire of the mortar at least. To avoid random firing at the caches, perhaps a civilian-system could again be used: If a mortar rounds impacts too far from a request marker, the mortar crewman gets a warning, loses score, loses intelligence, and gets an increased respawn time. Reason: Risking of civilian lifes due to improper use of the mortar. Even if no actual civilian is killed.

baptist_christian wrote:Every time I man mortars, I just ask my team mates to place a fire mission marker anywhere and just call out the map coordinates of where they need mortars.

So if we really dont need this complicated, and IMHO broken, distance estimation scheme, then why do we have it? Its very presense seems to mislead players into thinking that it is necessary so they are reluctant to call fire support.?

The fire mission is not broken IMO. Receiving coordinates in chat or VoIP often enter one ear and exit the other when there are multiple targets. It gives other SLs a chance to mark their targets simultaneously. Remember, the (hopefully mature) SLs who can request fire missions are the control. Without the fire missions, mortars would fire at will and towards any location, consuming ammunition and endangering their team.

When you set a marker, the deviation system that is used for regular rifles is applied. Sometimes, even after waiting over 10 seconds, the deviation refuses to settle properly, consistently giving me bad markers.

POST EDIT:

BloodAce wrote:Setting accurate markers has nothing to do with deviation.
All you have to do is 2 small steps in desired direction and you can place your marker with almost perfect precision. Only measuring a distance is now a little tricky unless you have GLTD.

Tested the above and I stand corrected.

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Speaking of civis. Can they call in mortars?

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If you want the close teamwork of mortar team/spotter, you must make a squad with that in mind. Bear in mind that if you want someone in your squad spotting a target location, that person will have to get there first. Some targets are too temporary for that to work efficiently. If the SL who requested the fire mission has gone and cannot replace the marker when you need more volleys, you would almost instantly lose the ability to shoot something you were already pointed at. I've had players from other squads spot for me.

I dont really see any problems with the fire mission system. I dont think its really needed that you HAVE to have a active fire mission to use the morters, but its not really a big problem. The only thing i think should be changed is the cache marker on insurgency. Its just too accurate now.
I dont mind that morters can see the cache marker and randomly fire at the area without a spotter. The problem right now is that you can pretty much guess what building the cache is in, so you can very accuratly bomb the cache, even without a spotter..
I think we need to find a compromise between range of the new and the old markers to solve this. In that way it would require a spotter in order to be efficient, but you could still bomb the area without one.

About the UGLs: Yeah, the ACOG is in the way at short ranges, you just have to guess where to fire. (Or you can requst the alternate kit, without the scope)

well the UGL with acog blocking some of the sights happens irl so...

I had the same thought. I guess its better than nothing for servers where there is no use of mumble. However I did not notice mortars being the ueber weapon yet, with crews racking up tons of kills. A skilled grenadier is far more accurate and deadly.

I only had mortar use once... Perfect 3 times hit + 2 smokes, compound clear. Just wanted to say that first before moving in to the answer to the OP.

You are right about the spamming. Perhaps adding a timer limit between angle changes (Ex. you can only change up to some 5 degrees vertically and sideways - I know this is a lot, just throwing it in here - in a x amount of time (5 minutes?) after firing the 1st round, making mortaring requested coordinates much more important than bombing every cache, which the Taliban can simply respawn. Correcting fire is still doable.)

I didn't notice the thing about the UGL sight.

I wish that at short ranges one could just use their 3D ACOG to fire their nades.

Gosu-Rizzle wrote:I dont really see any problems with the fire mission system. I dont think its really needed that you HAVE to have a active fire mission to use the morters, but its not really a big problem. The only thing i think should be changed is the cache marker on insurgency. Its just too accurate now.
I dont mind that morters can see the cache marker and randomly fire at the area without a spotter. The problem right now is that you can pretty much guess what building the cache is in, so you can very accuratly bomb the cache, even without a spotter..

Have you seen any BLUFOR actually win matches with this tactic? I've mostly been playing insurgency, I have yet to see a BLUFOR team get more than 2 caches or last much more than an hour on any insurgency map. I personally don't think that the BLUFOR mortars are a problem in the slightest

[R-MOD]BloodBane611 wrote:Have you seen any BLUFOR actually win matches with this tactic? I've mostly been playing insurgency, I have yet to see a BLUFOR team get more than 2 caches or last much more than an hour on any insurgency map. I personally don't think that the BLUFOR mortars are a problem in the slightest

Well, i havent played too many rounds of insurgency yet, but i have seen them win at least once like this. That was a (very close) round of Fallujah west where they used this strategi quite effectively every time a cahce spawned on the open areas of the map. Some places on Fallujah it is just very easy to guess where the cache is now..
Dont get me wrong though, im not saying "the game is ruined!"

Had 2 caches(1 completely exposed) being mortared constantly for 5-10 minutes today, not a single thing happened to the cache.

The problem i find with mortars is that the insurgents can mortar the U.S. main on small maps (specifically Kokan). There were at least 6 destroyed HUMVEES in the main due to mortar fire, and I couldn't walk around without getting hit by a mortar blast. I think there needs needs to be an invisible shield around the BLUFOR's main. Much like the carrier's shield.

Havent seen US win a single round on Kokan yet, with both CAS, UAV and mortars being in use.

Why don't insurgencts then simply mass spawn as civilians where the mortar fire is? Makes them think twice about shooting blindly.

And to the rest of you about mortar being spammable. This is modern warfare, deal with it. I have been in real military exercises where commanders have orderd mortar fire blindly in to key sections of the area with great effect, my platoons CV9040 got knocked out since they had taken a position around a road junction, the enemy commander anticipated this and fired in smart mortar bombs (anti-vehicle mortar rounds).

Tartantyco wrote:Had 2 caches(1 completely exposed) being mortared constantly for 5-10 minutes today, not a single thing happened to the cache.

Hmm, i was leading a CAS squad on Kokan with Gekko (AWESOME PILOT). he did multiple runs on a compounds with a cache in one of the houses. one of the rockets flew in a house and the cache went down. i atleast think so, because noone was near the houses, just me and a few blue guys outside of the wall, pkm pinned us down (he managed to blow up a humvee lol)

Just put Civilians back in as proper Civilians with proper ROE on them. This lazy ROE we've been enjoying with Collaborators is utter tosh and fails to adequately punish transgressors, or reflect the contempory operating environment.

Interestingly enough the military can reliably put precision guided artillery on a ten figure grid, but doesn't do this to clear possible cache locations without observation of the target or out of contact. But shit, I've been harping on about this for three years now, funny how the problem stays the same irrespective of the new assets that it manifests with.

The main problem with mortars is that it takes away a good 3+ guys from the front (two mortars, one SL/rifleman with ammo, perhaps even more, one guy in the field spotting). Battles are slowly becoming more diluted, IMO.

Also, I think that you should be able to adjust your angle without having an active fire mission. Many SLs now are simply "calling" a fire mission right in front of them just so that the mortars can bring up the adjustment screen so that they can fire into the field without an actual fire mission from another squad.