Project Reality Forums

PR is is an amazing game and i still love to play it. Ive been playing since .4 and from the many, many changes have come. But since then in my opinion its seems to me that strayed from teamwork some. It seems to me that anymore its about playing in all the vehicles and just trying to show off in tricks in the planes and stuff. This game use to have a lot more inf squads now im lucky if I see 1 or 2 a map.

SemiStory: I remember when Muttah was all about INF and me and my squad were held up in the T buildings with cobra missiles were hitting right next to us and inf poring in.

Now it seems is if you try and have an inf squad there you just go around a corner and there is a APC or a BT something sitting there and then mows you down. So any more people are just in tanks or sitting in mortars. Mean really does it take 6 people to man 2 mortars. The few places left with INF squads are Insurgent map and that even has flaws. Now that it counts a kill if your wounded every one is scared to go into battle, or just sits in the vehicles.

All and all I really think some of these maps need some of the larger assets replace with troop transports.

There was a thread about numbers of assets recently.
I don't see it as a sign of PRs development in general. Recently, the number of vehicles was increased, but it might as well decrease again any time. It's not a "direction" imo. I'd also like more infantry, and I would not be surprised if that would be exactly what we'd get next.

Anti-Tank is your friend.

I think it is only different because the maps are different - bigger.
Smaller maps or some inf layer maps on servers would do wonders I think.

Swado95 wrote:All and all I really think some of these maps need some of the larger assets replace with troop transports.

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:Anti-Tank is your friend.

Doesn't really help
And Swado, as a brief .25 and on'er like yourself, I definitely agree with you. It's an evolving mod though, and in an analogous sense I'd say it's evolved so far that PR [gameplay] is soaring so far from its birthplace that it can't even see its old roots anymore. I'm not saying that in a bad way, I think the devs have done a fantastic job overall... but it does seem to be evolving into a game that I'm not so much into anymore [50% player failz, 50% asset heavy 4km^2 maps], which I find sad as it's been my staple source of entertainment for over 4 years now.

Psyrus wrote: Doesn't really help

APCs are troop transports.... You say you keep on getting shot by APCs, but you want more APCs? APCs are the realistic front line troops transports. Transport Trucks are not front line troop transports, and as such, are rarely used in such a way in r/l. Having more trucks and less APCs would be unrealistic.

If you find yourself getting killed by APCs, bring an AT weapon, they can easily kill them, epically if they are acting like a light tank.

the issue here is that everyone is still using the APC's as IFV.

Basically all the changes to vehicles have just made infantry less desirable. Seems as if out of 9 squads 6 of them seem to be "asset" squads and the remaining "infantry" squads also hold assets to them

CroCop wrote:the issue here is that everyone is still using the APC's as IFV.

APCs and IFVs are basically the same thing and pretty much used in the same way in r/l.

The issue is most people use APCs/IFVs as light tanks.


Also I would suggest many of you try playing on different servers as I can always find a bunch of decent Inf squads to play in.

Less assets on maps or at least less respawnable assets would make them better. APC/tank crew should be punished for acting as light tank and wasting their asset, not just hoping into another asset in main, when they spawn.

IMO assets should be powerful but less spammy.

I would repeat Fuzzhead on this one:

[R-DEV]fuzzhead wrote:I think 4km maps with reduced heavy assets is best gameplay PR has to offer.

Ok, if you manage to get surprised by an APC then there's something wrong with your hearing. If you're missing teamwork then I suggest you choose different servers to play on(PRTA PRTA PRTA PRTA).

Alright, IMO, I always play infantry (well, rarily as a tanker or APCer).

Damn, infantry all the way! The only kind of unit that can take any part in any battle. The most self-sufficient unit in-game is an infantry squad.

What do you mean AT doesn't help? You know, once we were going into Silent Eagle's Central Village (was still US vs Russia) in some HMMWVs. I see an enemy setting up his RPG. I quickly get off the HMMWV and gun him down. Hooray, we got a HAT kit, something we hadn't even brought before (I think we had a LAT).

Well, Russian guy, thanks for the HAT. We killed, what? 2 tanks and 3 APCs on our own in the Central Village, let alone the infantry squads.

Tanks are sitting ducks if you have things to counter. Choppers can only fly over AA-free zones. What I mean is, everything has its counters.

Infantry? Well... Everything is made to counter infantry. Why? Because their a freakin' pain in the ***. If there are buildings... Nightmare. Not even your thermal can find us now, b**ch. If there are trees... You got the first-shot advantage.

The downside of infantry is they are like eggshells: look at it and they break. But first you gotta see them before they squash on top of you... Or you gotta be quick on the trigger before they roll out of sight again.

But that's against heavy assets. Did you know that Everything is made to support infantry as well? (Of course, I know the exceptions, such as HMMWV AA for tanks... Choppers against tanks... But, hey, airships can't hold ground! And tanks holding still are freaken sitting ducks! Infantry around? Gotta watch out!)

Except on Qinqlin

there is an infantry mode layer on most all maps......maybe some server admins should try that layer out....

Also I would suggest many of you try playing on different servers as I can always find a bunch of decent Inf squads to play in.

As can I, but that is beside the point, as it still remains that infantry - the bit that does the work and has the most gameplay value - is simply left out in the cold as there are more viable and ticket-worthy alternatives available. We the people can see from the past 4 or so releases that you - the developers - have a rather nonchalant attitude to the issues pertaining to infantry. Sure, you can argue that 'they aren't playing the game right' or that 'you should've got a HAT kit' but its undeniable that there is a flaw with infantry gameplay.

The issue is most people use APCs/IFVs as light tanks.

Because to not use them as light tanks is to ignore their ample armament. PR is still about kills, as it always has been (but slowly its becoming the opposite with the flag ticket loss) and getting a massive KD is unfortunately the most beneficial way of supporting the team.

Certain maps could use a reduction or change of assets. But saying that PR is moving away from its roots is a bit far fetched, because the vehicles has always been there. And, to be honest, it's easy to complain about how "overpowering" these assets can be, but people rarely question how the infantry behaves. For example, it's quite obvious that an infantry squad won't stand a chance against a group of tanks in open terrain, yet it's a very common complaint when it comes to the big maps. It's like some people have the idea that PR is all about infantry all the time, even though nobody has every said so and it's quite clear that it's not the case.

It's like some people have the idea that PR is all about infantry all the time, even though nobody has every said so and it's quite clear that it's not the case.

Of course it isn't, but it should be about balance, be that symmetrical or otherwise. Maps like SEagle offers a good combat experience by having infantry islands, however its an immense struggle when operating as infantry in one of these islands to take down enemy vehicles, often attrition is the best form of dealing with them, which honestly shouldn't be the case.

tl :d r, infantry need more ways to deal with assets than is currently offered.

dtacs wrote:As can I, but that is beside the point, as it still remains that infantry - the bit that does the work and has the most gameplay value - is simply left out in the cold as there are more viable and ticket-worthy alternatives available. We the people can see from the past 4 or so releases that you - the developers - have a rather nonchalant attitude to the issues pertaining to infantry. Sure, you can argue that 'they aren't playing the game right' or that 'you should've got a HAT kit' but its undeniable that there is a flaw with infantry gameplay.

the "flaw with infantry gameplay" is they only have legs and they need to walk to objectives if they can not get a lift to the fight. There is easily enough transport ingame to transport even single player at the same time (providing none of them get blown up) but still players can't manage to get transport. The reason for this is mainly because most APC drivers dont want to transport infantry, although on a bunch of good servers, they do. Is the solution to add even more vehicles ingame? No. As you guys have said, there are "far too many assets in PR", adding even more is not the solution. Should we "dumb down" the game so everyone can get to the battle? I'm sure you guys agree we shouldn't

The solution is players using APCs to transport troops, if they dont, there team will suffer.

dtacs wrote:Because to not use them as light tanks is to ignore their ample armament. PR is still about kills, as it always has been (but slowly its becoming the opposite with the flag ticket loss) and getting a massive KD is unfortunately the most beneficial way of supporting the team.

and that "ample armament" should be used to support infantry after it has transported them just outside the objective.

What's better than an APC's weapons? The APC's weapons + Infantry weapons. Mix the two together and both the APC and infantry are far more effective and can survive much more easily. An APC working on its own as a light tank, without any infantry support can easily get by AT missiles. An APC working with the infantry can not so easily get hit by AT missiles, as the infantry moving up in front of the APC can spot and take out AT before it can become a threat to the APC in most cases.

PR is not about dumbing down the game to make it easy for everyone to play, if we went down that rout we would be vBF2 with more content and no one would play the mod

dtacs wrote:Of course it isn't, but it should be about balance, be that symmetrical or otherwise. Maps like SEagle offers a good combat experience by having infantry islands, however its an immense struggle when operating as infantry in one of these islands to take down enemy vehicles, often attrition is the best form of dealing with them, which honestly shouldn't be the case.

tl :d r, infantry need more ways to deal with assets than is currently offered.

You have handheld Light AT, handheld Heavy AT and deployable TOW missiles, + not to mention TOWs mounted on hummers, CAS, and many, many other options, what more do you need?

Personally, all I ever choose to play is infantry. I'm not alone in this. Most people that I've known and clanned with through the years enjoy the infantry role over vehicular combat. Sadly, you guys lost a whole "army" of us loyal, team-based, ground pounding, dog-faced grunts through the past several iterations of the mod.

I hate sounding like a ***** repeating what I stated in an earlier post...but; "The unrealistic deviation isn't as conducive to infantry assaults as it was in earlier versions of PR". In my opinion this is the reason you're not having as many infantry squads as before; Who the heck wants to continue getting creamed by the heavy vehicles on top of not being able to reactively fire while naturally ranging in on a nearby enemy?*

*I would have to assume because of the relatively small armies present that the scenario for PR, or BF2 for that matter, would be two opposing light/fast reaction forces in a closed theater. Happening across an enemy or multiple enemies or directly assaulting a position, these seasoned units (in real life) would be trained to fast react by firing one round or one burst directly at the target (minus "true sight" aiming I might add) so as to range or lead the next 2 to 3 rounds or bursts. Enabling a highly trained soldier a direct hit by the 3rd or 4th round/burst.

So really the old deviation, or lack of, would seem to me to more realistic than the newer forced deviation. Seeing as most of us in game would miss at the first or second shot anyway.

I hope I'm making some sense and not insulting the Developers who I highly respect. In fact a new developer endorsed PR infantry mini mod perhaps? Wouldn't take much to code. Seems like the old versions with some of the newer implementations other than radical deviation would suffice. Plus you would recycle some of the old and great maps that you guys painstakingly coded...Rhino?

The solution is players using APCs to transport troops, if they dont, there team will suffer.

On the contrary, Jaymmz went 40 something-0 in the 30mm MTLB on Muttrah, ended the round 20-0, with the victory thanks to he and his driver using it as a light tank. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the APC's are at an increased risk transporting infantry as its getting closer to the objective, instead of firing at it.

and that "ample armament" should be used to support infantry after it has transported them just outside the objective.

What's better than an APC's weapons? The APC's weapons + Infantry weapons. Mix the two together and both the APC and infantry are far more effective and can survive much more easily. An APC working on its own as a light tank, without any infantry support can easily get by AT missiles. An APC working with the infantry can not so easily get hit by AT missiles, as the infantry moving up in front of the APC can spot and take out AT before it can become a threat to the APC in most cases.

You're focusing on the survivability of the APC which isn't important as it has little ticket loss compared to what it inflicts. 40 kills is a whopping eighty tickets lost, and if that APC dies, its a light blow with only 12 lost. And while I might agree that in some sense that inf + an APC has a higher chance of staying alive when together, they have more option for kills by acting as a light tank. Don't have evidence on hand of that, but any game of any server can show that.

PR is not about dumbing down the game to make it easy for everyone to play, if we went down that rout we would be vBF2 with more content and no one would play the mod

Believe me I'm not advocating that, just trying to say what personally is troubling me about the mod

JohnnyPissoff wrote: *I would have to assume because of the relatively small armies present that the scenario for PR, or BF2 for that matter, would be two opposing light/fast reaction forces in a closed theater.

You assume wrong, tickets and spawning mean you are actually fighting "large" scale fights of 300~vs300~ or whatever the tickets are

dtacs wrote:Of course it isn't, but it should be about balance, be that symmetrical or otherwise. Maps like SEagle offers a good combat experience by having infantry islands, however its an immense struggle when operating as infantry in one of these islands to take down enemy vehicles, often attrition is the best form of dealing with them, which honestly shouldn't be the case.

tl :d r, infantry need more ways to deal with assets than is currently offered.

Seriously?! You have two different AT kits, a AA kit, stationary TOWs and AAs, mines and sometimes the ability to call for armor or air support. If that is not enough for you, I don't know what is. If anything, it's the opposite. The AT loadout teams has by default both outnumber and overpower the armor on most maps since it's usually just a few APCs on them. Play a few rounds as a crewman on Muttrah, Iron Ridge, Barracuda, etc and see for yourself.