Project Reality Forums

For certain kits, to be determined at the discretion of the MAs or DEVs, I suggest now that certain kits issued to Coalition forces during the insurgency game mode also drop a roughly equivalent kit obtainable by the Insurgents. Upon picking up either kit, the other should dissipate.

In example:
A US soldier obtains a Combat Engineer kit and merrily makes his lonewolfing, unsupported, way into Ramiel. After he is inevitably slaughtered by a squad or two of defending insurgent forces, both his Combat Engineer kit and an Artillery IED kit are spawned on his body. Either the US forces successfully recover the kit and the Artillery IED kit disappears, or the insurgent forces recover the IED kit and the CE kit is returned to the pool in 5/10 minutes.

The purpose of this is to simulate stripping the explosives or useful bombmaking components from US kits obtained in the field, as well as to reintroduce an element of caution required when using these extremely powerful kits in the field.

Some of the conversions would inevitably be more awkward than others, such as a SRAW turning into an RPG7 or similar, but I feel it would introduce realistic behavior through a gameplay oriented change.

Possible issue: Kitswapping behavior could return in an altered form, wherein an insurgent will make arrangements out of game with a coalition player to gain an extra kit, but I have faith the admins and players of PR would catch and deal with this behavior.

This would be interesting, possibly hardcoded though.

It would be interesting to see insurgents using ACOG scopes that they find.

i like it, it's definitely adding to realism. If it doable it should be tested

i like it and isn't bad idea at all, although hardcodedness springs to mind, unless u made two player models for one person and do the same thing? but thats getting complicated.

It sadly does sound hardcoded.
Also, there's two more problems:
Twice the amount of kits on the ground might have an impact on the game due to the limits of networkable objects or w/e. I guess these fall within that limit.

Also, a friendly unit picking up the wrong kit would make the correct one disappear, leaving the fallen soldier without his proper kit. One would have to be extra-careful with that. And if the body happens to slide on the wrong kit and the combat engineer is then revived, he suddenly has a kit he can not use.

Spec_Operator wrote:Also, a friendly unit picking up the wrong kit would make the correct one disappear, leaving the fallen soldier without his proper kit. One would have to be extra-careful with that. And if the body happens to slide on the wrong kit and the combat engineer is then revived, he suddenly has a kit he can not use.

Perhaps a five second timer would correct this issue, or perhaps that would be the end punishment for disregarding the responsibility of the kit simply because you know the game will clean up after you.

I really like this idea We can always make the kit spawn at main/cache if that solves the problem?

The only thing with that is it would just give them kits they would already get. It is an inresting idea but its basical one of your guys dieing next to you and you picking it up. Mean whats more fun then knowing the enemy are peeing in their pants waiting 4 the C4 bikes to come.

Swado95 wrote:The only thing with that is it would just give them kits they would already get. It is an inresting idea but its basical one of your guys dieing next to you and you picking it up. Mean whats more fun then knowing the enemy are peeing in their pants waiting 4 the C4 bikes to come.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean? I'm not suggesting the insurgents get the same kits the coalition soldiers drop, meaning they wouldn't get sticky C4. They would get an artillery IED kit if they chased down a combat engineer and killed him though.

Do you mean like mixed kits? If thats true then i can see getting the game file too big when it is already big and causing lag issus.

Nono, not at all. No new kits are required.

In a more detailed example: A US combat engineer dies.

His kit contains C4, Mines, the Wrench, etc.

The insurgent artillery IED kit is already in game, and contains two jury rigged 105(?) shells with remote detonators, however it does not contain C4 or mines.

That Combat Engineer kit is dropped in tandem with an insurgent Artillery IED kit, meaning either team can step up and claim the explosive power and field demolitions the kit represents. When one team picks up their kit, the other vanishes.

I am not suggesting giving insurgents blocks of sticky c4 or coalition HATs.

So if US drops c4 we (insergents) get arty shell. If they drop HAT we get rpg. Except for more arty shells its just still not the same. There are alot of RPGs so its still wouldnt change gamplay that much. The insergent forces run off scavenged weapons. It was better the old way if anything since it kept people from being dum and thinking about what they really need.

If the reason it was taken out is because the insergent wouldnt know how to use it. Well I bet it takes 5 min to go online and look up how to use most of these weapons.

The point isn't about the immediate use of the weapon, but about the reloading. The DEVs have handed down that it is impossible within BF2 to prevent the reloading of a kit based on who's holding it. The training aspect really only does come into play with the AR kit and similar weapons, and while the ideal solution would be to severely penalize a non US solder for using a US weapon, that is also hardcoded.

I'm not arguing that this solution is realistic, but I do think it will give us a return to coalition players needing to exercise some measure of common sense if they want to avoid handing the insurgent team any unnecessary advantages. This isn't a measure to force a disadvantage on the coalition, but it does punish them if they allow their teammates to play in an unrealistic manner, ie lonewolfing with a HAT or CE in an attempt to ninja a cache.

The change to take almost all of the useful kits away from insurgents was made as a measure to...I don't really pretend to know what was so wrong with the system, but I'm not a DEV.

it doesnt make sense ... if a US Engineer dies with a c4 how does the C4 Magicaly turn into an Artillary IED? . . . is it like Play'Doh?? morph the explosive into any shape or form? if anything was to happen with the kit system it would be .. return it back to the way it was before where you can pick up enemy kits . .

yeah, this doesn't make much sense to me, I appreciate the effort tho, cause I agree the kit pickup block needs some tweaking, its rather awkward as it is right now

This suggestion stems from the concept that a break in realistic gameplay can lead to realistic behavior.

I'm not suggesting the same kinds of explosives found in an Artillery shell are the same as those found in a block of C4 (they arn't) are they?

What I am suggesting is that there is currently no punishment for the unrealistic behavior of suicide charges as a coalition player, nor does the game penalize you for being utterly retarded and hiking your way through the city, alone, with an extremely powerful guided antitank or anti aircraft weapon and a rifle as your only backup.

I'm offering a solution that doesn't automatically punish the player (like killing them if they don't behave in a certain way), but it provides an extremely strong incentive to use some common sense.

Loving this idea, but I'm also agree with the hard coded suspicions...

Also, quick wiki check, arty and c4 might have the same type of explosive...

"The introduction of 'insensitive munition' requirements, agreements and regulations in the 1990s caused modern western designs to use various types of plastic bonded explosives (PBX) based on RDX." for arty.

"As with many plastic explosives, the explosive in C4 is RDX (cyclonite or cyclotrimethylene trinitramine), which makes up around 91% of C4 by weight." C4, obviously.

Maybe there should be delay after the death, insurgents would search and modifie the exblosives before they pic them up.
Also, in real life Insurgents would not stick around and get some gear, becoase they know those "american pigs" never come alone.

I think this would only work for combat engi.. I mean changing it to a totally different weapon wouldn't make sense. SRAW into RPG7? That's a stretch indeed.

OR it could all be solved by being able to pick up US kits again! The most realistic and non-hardcoded way to go by. Why they changed it to what it is now is still a big mystery to me, where you can use some kits but not all of them. It does'nt make any sense at all.