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Used the search button and from what i gathered i know that the markers were removed (unless ur within 120m of it) to stop the BVR firing from choppers right?

That i actually understand. I agree with the fact of getting rid of the 3d markers for infantry as well.


The problem i have is for Jets. Due to the change in how to bomb a position, it is now ridiculously difficult to bomb anything. Iv asked around and gotten the same complaints from a bunch of people.

We understand that the change in bombing was done to probably make it more "fair" so that any bomb drop exposes you to AA now, and its not done from 4000m in the air, but trying to line up a drop shot on a target is EXTREMELY tough now.

Its something to get used to, but even then it now takes literally over a minute to get ready for a drop.


These markers i was told work the same for infantry and vehicles so they cannot be changed? Is this correct? Because if not, would it be possible to make these markers appear for vehicles at a much greater distance than infantry? Lets say about 700m or so?

The only reason why i say this is because on a map like, lets say Silent Eagle, you all know that the whole map makes you think you are battling in a post nuclear explosion with the range of visibility being so minimal that by the time you see the ground as you are coming in for a dive, it is already time to pull up or else ur gonna meet your doom with the floor.

With abcolutely no markers, and the green target box appearing at a close distance only from lazed targets, its almost impossible.


We did add QuiLing to our servers list and trying to do the whole bomb the target with my copilot was probably the most painful experience i have ever seen.

(This is probably worthy of its own thread in the bugs section as a few people who tried to bomb a lazed target would miss all the time. By the time you reach and see the target box you are over top of it, and by the time you release the target is already behind you, and it usually misses, making the manual mode the only mode to use effectively, though i personally have not tried, but have seen it on a numerous of occasions.)

So in the end i guess what im suggesting is if its possible to set the visible distance of move markers different from vehicle to person, OR if its possible to increase the visible range of the target box on a lazed target, but not have the I GOT A LOCK tone any earlier that it is already implemented in teh game. It not like we want to engage targets from a further away distance. We just want to see were the damn target is so we can engage....

+1 I support your Idea! Not much 2 explain you already did.

Use the heading indicator...

I believe the green box appears at about 1km, but I don't have much experience with jets.

I don't like the idea of making the jets very easy to use, you should try and find a landmark to base your bombing on by looking at your map. I don't think it's too much to ask considering the jets have few threats and bombs which will flatten anything in their path.

They don't have a great deal of problem with AA because they move so fast, and when they're in the envelope where the AA could hit them they can pop a couple of flares and be done with it. You wouldn't expect to get anyway without having any threats.

Solution: Add a manual targeting mode for bombs like Combined Arms and REAL LIFE!



Starting at 1:47

For laser guided bombs, jets use targeting bomb pods with FLIR to guide them on to target. To represent this in PR, simply copy the code for the click to guide hellfire missiles from helicopters to the jets. To operate the bombs in PR, it would be the same as shooting hellfires from an att chopper.

Of course this mode would include the new pr "thermal" view and another mode can be added, just like the choppers, to allow bombs be locked on to ground designated lasers.

This would improve the game in terms of realism and balance. Planes can now acquire targets by themselves via the FLIR, but this is still balanced for AAVs because the planes have to expose themselves in level flight in search of targets.

The above solution would be great for laser guided bombs on planes such as the F16. As for planes, such as the A-10, that use JDAMs, I suggest keeping the current system or make a manual dropping mode that utilizes the HUD to drop bombs.



Overall, the jets really need some upgrading since they have not been changed really since many many many versions ago. Other things to consider are maybe, radar and CA style flare system.

I support this. Make the 3d markers in vehicles show up from farther away, say 400 instead of 100.

Do we really need jets? The map size doen`t allow them to operate realisticly.
They eihter need to be removed or get uptaded,

Well im not saying make it easy by any means.


Im saying, right now its just crazy...


Im using my minimap to look at my approach, and because i have absofuckin lutely NO idea where the damn target actually is below me because i cant see the ground (Because now you need to come in with a steep dive to bomb) you rely on how closely you get to the arrow as your diving on the target. ALL THE WHILE you are worried as hell abotu the enemy jet spotting you, because there is no way in hell you will notice anything else going on around you as your doing this bomb run.

+1
I like the idea, would be helpful for transport choppers to.

[R-DEV]Sniperdog wrote:Use the heading indicator...

It doesnt help, its the angle while diving wich is the problem. You can still overshoot the target. If I dive from 3000m i need to take up my big map to check my position at marked position several times. If the target move, and my SL cant guide me, I will almost certainly miss the target.

Another way is of course to not dive straight down, but then you will be a visible target for AA's for a much longer time. And its a bad strategy if enemy jets are up.

As I see it, a compromise would be:

Set 3d marker back to the way it was, for jets only (if possible?)
or
make the bombs activate from 1500 m instead of 1000m.

I was quite puzzled when 3d markers where removed, and that the explanation was that Fire BVR was the reason. I really cant remember it happening to me i prior versions, and I almost only play large maps with airsupport when playing AAS.
I do remember some complaints about it happening on Mutthra, and the problem is still there on that map. As I got killed twice by the cobracanon last week, without seeing it or hearing it. Just things blowing up and people getting killed. We couldnt hear the impact from the shells either.

^ I am pretty sure a change was made so you actually had to be closer to the laze also to stop the ridiculous bomb locking onto a laze mid-flight.

Cant say I have found it hard to bomb targets. Just takes more getting used to, although that was before my tr.exe started crashing every time I launched the game :\

Tim hes not talking about bomb lases, hes talking about the 3d marker. Was removed to keep things like Attack helis, tows, and any weapons in general really from sitting in one spot and firing into the fog at an attack marker with high accuracy. A Cobra could hover over the carrier on muttrah for instance and rain hell on any MEC on the shoreline, or like that one videa where a tow on jabal sitting on one side of a hill and firing tows over it at targets on the other side *ive seen this attempted on a cache on Korengal in the past from the US main to the cache at that south outpost. They actually got very close to hitting it on one attempt*

While I agree with it being removed for those purposes, even though i personally havnt flown since this specific update Im very accurate when it comes to those dive bomb runs ralfi and many others have been forced to do lately and at least for jets and jets alone should be allowed the marker back.

Increasing the marker render distance by any means would be negating the intended effect of the markers.

Instead you should face the heading, descend early, and coast along the bottom edge of the clouds until you find the target via the lase indicator or by audio lock.
I shouldn't have to say this, but, also make sure that you're not flying into an area with AA. You shouldn't have to worry about descending early because there shouldn't be any AA in your flight path in the first place.

Celestial1 wrote:Increasing the marker render distance by any means would be negating the intended effect of the markers.

Instead you should face the heading, descend early, and coast along the bottom edge of the clouds until you find the target via the lase indicator or by audio lock.
I shouldn't have to say this, but, also make sure that you're not flying into an area with AA. You shouldn't have to worry about descending early because there shouldn't be any AA in your flight path in the first place.

Oh Lord. The ignorance of some of the people in this thread is incredible. There is a arming altitude for the MIG 29 that is absolutely retarded for its relative speed. Its impossible to get my accuracy precentage back up to were it use to be.

'= wrote:H[=Rissien;1529648']BVR

I know what BVR is. I was referring to one of the reasons markers were removed, along with BVR there was a issue with bombs locking onto lazes at strange angles/mid-flight..

While I agree with it being removed for those purposes, even though i personally havnt flown since this specific update Im very accurate when it comes to those dive bomb runs ralfi and many others have been forced to do lately and at least for jets and jets alone should be allowed the marker back.

You allow the markers back for the sake of bombing, but it will simply be used for BVR cannon attacks. I still do not see the problem. I have had no problem in descending in, lining up my heading to the marker on the laze and locking.

If anything a larger resolution heading marker on the HUD would be a better solution.

Finding the laze with the help of the heading indicator, the minimap and the HUD is easy enough at the moment. If you have a hard time succeeding I suggest you get more practice.

Adding realistic targeting systems like in Combined Arms would be awesome but due to the low view distance and small maps (16 sq km is not that large really) it would be somewhat pointless.

I'd be happy if we would get rid of the 3d marker completely. Everything is not supposed to be easy.

The thing is you have to bomb dive.

Forget Kashan. Kashan is an awesome Jet map.

But talk about Quiling or perhaps Silent Eagle where the visibility range is utter ****, and you are suddenly forced to make do with things.


Flying parallel to the ground at a certain height and dropping the bomb on cue when you hear "I got a lock" does not work. You are flying too fast for that to work, especially in the Eurofighter (No after burner just regular cruise).

By the time you drop, the bomb just flies way past the marker.


So now you do dive bombings, but since all you see is pure white when ur just above clouds, when you start to dive down on the target you lose alllllll sense of what is what and where is up and down or what angle ur at or anything. There is nothign to give you an indication of whether or not your diving straight AT the target, PAST the marker, or Behind the marker.... The lining up is NOT THE ISSUE HERE. You just look at the minimap as ur flying and make sure ur flying in that line, thats no problem. By the time you go down and past the clouds and you start to see the ground, you THEN get a good look at the ground and can correct ur position, but by the time you DO do that, your well past 500feet and the bomb drops a dookie on the tank (dud). Duds happen ALL too often.

Also, has anybody else noticed that the Eurofighter has a TERRIBLE nose down rate? Like pull up with the joystick and everything is ok, but when flyign level and its time to put the stick foreward to dive down, it does it more slowly than a logistics truck trying to turn 30 degrees, lol, often making you go past the attack marker for another run, or you roll ur aircraft inverted and pull back on the stick, but htat makes you lose all sense of up and down in the clouds, and the minimap doesnt help at that point cuz all it shows is the jet flying east then in a blink of an eye its west since your pointing 180 degrees to the ground lol. Its a mess!!! Iv had good pilots break down in tears over this lately hahaha.

With any sort of indication of ur target on HUD or screen lacking, and no indication of where you are except the immediate position on ur minimap this is hell for the average PR player.

Having the 3D markers draw at about 600-700 meters would solve the problem, methinks.

TBH average PR players shouldn't be flying. Just my opinion. But if possible with the Lazes maybe have a longer distance they can be seen from but keep the lock distance the same? Even in attack choppers, not seeing a laze till your right ontop of it in a jet or chopper can be quite annoying. But I just laze rather then fly so not much of my problem.

Once upon a time in a town like this, I had the same idea, but now, when I think twice, no, it isn't realistic as the lazes were useless in time of the markers, that's why they are for, to mark your target , that's why there are lazes for CANNON, bombs, missiles, rockets...