Project Reality Forums

Posted: **2011-03-13 23:04**

Something came to my mind today after watching some controversial stuff surrounding rules of engagement and civilians in iraq. The way the game make us feel about killing civilians. I always feel really bad when I cause or do a teamkill, I should, its normal. But when I kill civilians, i dont 'feel' a thing, sometimes i even feel good cause i knew that civie was spotting or doing nasty stuff against my teammates. Note this is obviously all related to ingame activities

I guess this thread should possible be about how to tackle the emotional state of how one feels about civies. Tricky to say the least but hey worth a try if some added brainstorming about civie kit would make us better humans and virtual soldiers.

Would there be any gameplay element that could tackle this emotional state so people would actually feel bad about it, and act as a greater deterrent, or on the other hand, nerf civilian kits so we will try to ignore them more cause they are not a real 'threat'. Perhaps an additional civie kit, one being like a teammate, and the other the evil civie. I Would love to save a good civie who was being used as human shield for example. Shooting the bad guy.

Posted: **2011-03-13 23:24**

I think there isn't much we can do in-game... I mean, in-game, I actually feel bad when I arrest a civi and he gets a damn long spawn time

Posted: **2011-03-13 23:28**

Having a blue-for civie that could walk around would be kind of cool, him looking just like the regular civie, only thing is that he has NOTHING other than being able to raise his hands, and having to rely on him/them to get intell

Don't see how it would work tho..

As for shooting them, I dont like doing it, mainly becouse of the long spawntime I get, but sometimes it has to be done to save an asset. And i love giving them that long spawntime when I arrest them, just makes me want to do my evil laughter on mumble

Posted: **2011-03-13 23:29**

Civis are still on the INS side. Therefore people wont feel anything. Still killing an enemy just has negative effects.

Posted: **2011-03-13 23:47**

Nothing is more satisfying than killing a civilian.

My personal favorite method of arresting civilians is the reverse luring technique.

Civilians love to troll the BLUFOR soldiers by enticing them to try and chase after them. This usually results in the BLUFOR soldiers being killed because the civilian lures them into an ambush.

However, I do the opposite.

Once I notice a civilian trying to lure me in, I perform a pseudo-chase. I whip out my restrainers and run at him until he turns his back and runs. After he starts to flee, I immediately stop chasing him and start walking back the way I came.

He'll soon realize that I'm no longer chasing him and will return to try and lure me in again. This time, he'll probably try and antagonize me by throwing stones or whatnot.

It's important not to turn around and give him an indication that you know he's there; just keep walking, don't sprint. Act like you've lost interest. He'll grow more impatient and become even more ballsy.

This is where you spring the trap. Walk around a corner and wait.

He'll think you kept walking and will usually try and sprint to catch up as to not lose sight of you. Remember how I said not to sprint? This is why...

As soon as he rounds the corner, you'll have a full bar of stamina to run the little fucker down and pound his *** into the ground.

For even more lulz, be a specialist and just wait at the corner with your shotgun in hand. He'll round the corner and shit bricks. There will be no use in trying to run, he'll just die tired.

Posted: **2011-03-13 23:58**

Personally I thought it was 'threats to life' that you could shoot irl

As you know PR civis provide intel to the enemy, therefore threatening your life. They are not innocent and never will be. I often have 2 or 3 civis in my squad for basic protection and sometimes they get killed. It happens and we all accept it, if they were innocent bystanders it would be different of course.

Posted: **2011-03-14 00:47**

Pesticide wrote:Would there be any gameplay element that could tackle this emotional state so people would actually feel bad about it, and act as a greater deterrent

Well....we could give them a weapon slot that makes them pick up a kitten.

I think that civi's in a human only game can never have a realistic effect. Everyone knows that they are real players, and that they have malicious intents upon the enemy. On the other hand, they can be effective when using a system like in ArmA2 where you can have bots just walking around.

Posted: **2011-03-14 01:41**

Silly_Savage wrote:Nothing is more satisfying than killing a civilian.

My personal favorite method of arresting civilians is the reverse luring technique.

Civilians love to troll the BLUFOR soldiers by enticing them to try and chase after them. This usually results in the BLUFOR soldiers being killed because the civilian lures them into an ambush.

However, I do the opposite.

Once I notice a civilian trying to lure me in, I perform a pseudo-chase. I whip out my restrainers and run at him until he turns his back and runs. After he starts to flee, I immediately stop chasing him and start walking back the way I came.

He'll soon realize that I'm no longer chasing him and will return to try and lure me in again. This time, he'll probably try and antagonize me by throwing stones or whatnot.

It's important not to turn around and give him an indication that you know he's there; just keep walking, don't sprint. Act like you've lost interest. He'll grow more impatient and become even more ballsy.

This is where you spring the trap. Walk around a corner and wait.

He'll think you kept walking and will usually try and sprint to catch up as to not lose sight of you. Remember how I said not to sprint? This is why...

As soon as he rounds the corner, you'll have a full bar of stamina to run the little fucker down and pound his *** into the ground.

For even more lulz, be a specialist and just wait at the corner with your shotgun in hand. He'll round the corner and shit bricks. There will be no use in trying to run, he'll just die tired.

Perhaps 2 strykers + HMMVV + Specialist = civi arrest in Karbala. Worked once...

Posted: **2011-03-14 01:45**

Personally I think there should be steeper consequences for killing a civ. I've killed a few and honestly couldn't care less. If there were some actual noticeable consequences, I might think twice.

Posted: **2011-03-14 02:52**

You know what, in my last comment I didn't really contribute, but this is what I think should happen: The whole civi concept should just be removed from BF2

R and civi kits should just be given a small gun like that one they have in coop so they can act as a typical medic.
Once ArmA2

R comes out then we can use the civi concept properly with the bots and maybe create a player roll that allows them to hide amongst the civi bots.

Posted: **2011-03-14 03:21**

goguapsy wrote:Perhaps 2 strykers + HMMVV + Specialist = civi arrest in Karbala. Worked once...

ok, i want to hear this story.

anyway, theres not alot of incentive NOT to kill a civi. personally, i try to avoid the long spawn time. but people like snipers, who know that no matter how fast they respawn they wont get that kit back, wont give it a second thought. sure you lose 100 team points, but 3 guys building a FOB will get that right back. and score doesnt mean anything in PR, so its more like who cares.

theres no real benefit to tracking a civi down to capture him. alot of work for not alot of reward. most just kill them anyway.

Posted: **2011-03-14 06:30**

I feel like I ruined someones game (partially). I wouldn't want to be shot as civilian (normally) and so I do not shoot civilians (intentionally).

Posted: **2011-03-14 07:05**

Civilians who are a pest deserve to die. The punishment is very very little and most of the time on Insurgency maps the intel is reclaimed through a buttload of kills.

And its a video game, you shouldn't feel any sort of remorse when you kill anyone.

Posted: **2011-03-14 08:20**

Well when I kill an unarmed civi I usually do feel bad a bit since I did something that is almost as bad as a teamkill. But its epic when you arrest one.

Especially the way Silly described! X'D

Posted: **2011-03-14 08:39**

I think, if you kill civis, and can be punished for it, you should instant die. Since you are arrested by your own and courtmarshaled.

However if a civi get's killed within 5 m from any non-civi insurgent, it's his fault since he is "working with them".

Posted: **2011-03-14 15:11**

Himalde wrote:I think, if you kill civis, and can be punished for it, you should instant die. Since you are arrested by your own and courtmarshaled.

However if a civi get's killed within 5 m from any non-civi insurgent, it's his fault since he is "working with them".

I like that idea, but i would not go as far as killing the culprit, i would merely wound him so he needs at least 2 patches to stop bleeding. Thus making him have to run to a medic or retreat to base to stop bleeding. And the effect is instantly and he will think twice about sooting unidentified targets.

Posted: **2011-03-14 18:35**

Pesticide wrote:I guess this thread should possible be about how to tackle the emotional state of how one feels about civies. Tricky to say the least but hey worth a try if some added brainstorming about civie kit would make us better humans and virtual soldiers.

Would there be any gameplay element that could tackle this emotional state so people would actually feel bad about it

I think when you start feeling bad about killing something in a war game that it's time to put the keyboard down...

Posted: **2011-03-14 18:39**

Recoil

anyway, I think its good the way it is now, I would only change two things,
1. less stamina then any solidier
2. bucketshots are not arresting them(there should be 3th option "you was arrested by bucketshoot

").

The best way to fight with civilians is ignoring them untill they come to close, more civilians means less AKs.

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