Project Reality Forums

Greetings Developers,

My name is Wu, my IGN name is Wo0Do0. I joined the PR community in May 2009, in search of a more tactical and realistic game. Since the May 2009, I have accumulated 1,700+ hours of Project Reality. It?s not surprising; the game itself requires great amount of focus and mental awareness every moment. Project Reality has completely redefined my standards for a FPS game, and so far none has fulfilled such a daunting work of excellence. I express my sentiments for this game solely for the enjoyment that it has brought to me over the last years.
Today I am here to discuss with you guys the factors in this game that limits the amount of teamwork and tactical gameplay that could exist. I am speaking explicitly as a gamer, who seeks to refine the game where I see problems with. You will undoubtedly agree with most of the points below.

Spawning:
(1) Spawning in PR as of now is more congruent to what the community wants it to be. If your squad dies, your squad should suffer as a result. The FOB currently is our primary spawning mechanism. In PR, well placed FOB?s usually leads to victory.
-I agree 100% with FOB being the foremost spawn point for not only the squad but the team, and FOB spawns should therefore be majority of all spawns in a round.
-However, the squad spawn system primarily ensures squad organization before casualties. As the battle ensues, squad rally points become obsolete as the squad leader is one of the primary targets in an engagement. Squad leaders are physiologically driven in a public server setting to stay in front of the squad so he can coordinate the movement without too much trouble.
The fix:
-I propose, from months of observation, that the medic should be equipped with a backup rally. The medic, after the squad leader is down, becomes the secondary coordinator because he has the power to revive downed squad mates and restore the squad back to full strength. The medic sometimes is stuck between reviving a squad mate on open ground and falling back. Both of these options lead to squad disorientation.
-The squad that came out as the victor in a firefight gains not only advantage in tickets, morale advantage, organizational advantage, but also positional advantage.
The specifics: (Developer?s choice)
-the squad leader must be wounded or dead.
-The rally point have a cycling system similar to the squad rally.
-The medic must have a live squad mate with him to place the rally.
-In order to place the rally, the 2 or 3 members must be at least x amount of meters away from the enemy (I personally prefer 150 meters).
-The rally lasts 1 full minute, which is sufficient for any spawn timers in the squad.
-If any enemy approaches within the given amount of distance, the rally point is disabled.
*-The medic must have the kit for a certain amount of time for him to place the rally.
The effect:
-the medic fulfills the long awaited second in command role, bringing more complexity to the squad.
-PR player will now learn the tactic of falling back and attacking at a different time a direction, no longer squads have to be fully committed to a firefight.
-Squads that lose a firefight still suffers equal amount of punishment for lack of execution and teamwork.
-Falling back doesn?t always work; the squad that is retreating might encounter enemies.
-The new system makes people more aware of what?s about to happen, the victorious squad have the option to hunt down the lesser squad which lacks manpower and organization.

(2) When a certain member of a squad becomes the term, ?dead dead,? They are next given a specific timer for them to pick a spawn point or to remain dead.
- Half of the time, when the player deselect that spawn point, he spawns anyways at the last possible spawn point.
-This leads to disorientation of the squad, and frustration of the squad leader.
The Fix: (if not limited by the Refractor 2 engine)
-Develop a hold spawn point option, ideally located next to the ?giveup/call? for medic button.
The specifics: (developer?s choice)
-When the button is selected, either when the player is alive or dead, the spawn timer is increased by x amount of seconds upon death, to ensure that the player does not accidentally spawn where he or the squad leader does not want to.
The effect:
-Players will not have to deal with the frustration anymore, leading to more squad gameplay and fun!

*contribution by Lithium Fox, much appreciated

1. This was considered in the past, and not just limited to the medic, but basically any squad member could set the RP together with another squad member. If you guys want to discuss the merits of this idea, go ahead, we can reconsider it.

2. This is indeed an annoying thing with BF2. People eventually learn to deselect the spawn and press "Done", but it's not natural for new players. Instead of having the "Hold Spawn" button, I was thinking we could rename the "Done" button to "Spawn" and block the player from spawning until he presses that button. So each time he wants to spawn he needs to press "Spawn" which is not that bad because it's basically what you do anyways.

What you think?

a positive response being required would eliminate a lot of "accidental" spawns.

Medic or random members of the squad, creating a RP, is an opportunity for huge abuse on who's in control of the placement and where should the RP be deployed.

If there is a dysfunctional squad then anyone could create the RP, anywhere on the map.
1) While the SL is respawning the squad could respawn on the RP half across the map anyway from the SL.
2) Individual teams within a squad could bend control of the squad by waiting for the SL to die and move the squad anywhere.
3) The SL would lose authority.

1) No! if you want a rally point then reviive the SQ leader, if that's such a problem then stop him from dying in the first place. People who want this feature don't know the meaning of the word "wait"

2) having to click spawn will help.

'[R-DEV wrote:dbzao;1601948']2. [...] I was thinking we could rename the "Done" button to "Spawn" and block the player from spawning until he presses that button. So each time he wants to spawn he needs to press "Spawn" which is not that bad because it's basically what you do anyways.

That does sound like a very good idea that should prevent most of the accidental spawns.

killonsight95 wrote:1) No! if you want a rally point then reviive the SQ leader, if that's such a problem then stop him from dying in the first place. People who want this feature don't know the meaning of the word "wait"

2) having to click spawn will help.

1) A lot of the times the Squad Leader sees that they prefer standing at the front of their squad due to the ease of leading the squad from that location, and are more likely to die. Usually if your squad leader dies, your "second in command" would take over, and i do believe that this would usually be the medic. (at least in ARMA 2 it was always the medic in squads i was in. xD)

And we do know the meaning of the word wait, but this is if the squad leader and 2 others do something completely stupid and the medic and 2 guys are together. If you limit it properly it should be possible. And it's only the medic. It's not like it's a huge exploitation.

I was going to post a list of reasons why this would work, but the OP already did, and his are perfectly fine.

I think you need to re-read everything and actually understand what's being said.

Medic or random members of the squad, creating a RP, is an opportunity for huge abuse on who's in control of the placement and where should the RP be deployed.

If there is a dysfunctional squad then anyone could create the RP, anywhere on the map.
1) While the SL is respawning the squad could respawn on the RP half across the map anyway from the SL.
2) Individual teams within a squad could bend control of the squad by waiting for the SL to die and move the squad anywhere.
3) The SL would lose authority..

SL can still kick people from the squad
SL can complain to server admins
SL should be able to give "command access" to RP, meaning that if he dies he should be allowed to choose whether or not to give Medic access to the RP. (so that should be put in there)
There is always a second in command in real life. If you really have an issue with this, i'd recommend you choose your medic wisely.

Technically, you can still do 1-3 in your argument without this. All you have to really do is just get everyone to agree with you that your squad leader is stupid, and there ya go. =/










ALSO: Afterthought... I think This could help for "fireteams" for 8 man squads in the 128 server >_>

[R-DEV]dbzao wrote:1. This was considered in the past, and not just limited to the medic, but basically any squad member could set the RP together with another squad member. If you guys want to discuss the merits of this idea, go ahead, we can reconsider it.

2. This is indeed an annoying thing with BF2. People eventually learn to deselect the spawn and press "Done", but it's not natural for new players. Instead of having the "Hold Spawn" button, I was thinking we could rename the "Done" button to "Spawn" and block the player from spawning until he presses that button. So each time he wants to spawn he needs to press "Spawn" which is not that bad because it's basically what you do anyways.

What you think?

1. I think so long as it's limited to the medic and if there was some way to make it so the SL could choose whether or not the medic could place the rally, it could work. (Maybe use the "vote yes, vote no" option? )

2. Yes.

I am all for Op's first point and dzbao's second point.

First because medic would have a more important role, especially for 2nd in command lovers.

Second because it will definitely heal that misconception.

Cool thread. Well executed Ideas.

Im mostly a squad leader more than anything else. and when the majority of squad members get killed the last ones get picked off. i dont think giving squad members authority over the next spawn point would be wise because sometimes they are not very tactical at these decisions, especially the decisions of the one squad member who may have either been Lucky or smart enough to be the last one/s dead this is a 50/50 deal. Better off the person who has the forsight and selflessness to actually support the squad by going medic get the choice over this decision. and i dont nessesarily think the medic should need another squad member to form another rally. its hard enough staying alive as a medic nevermind being the primary target in a squad.

PYTHON: Added spawn time block when you go DEAD, waiting for the player to click DONE to actually spawn. (dbzao) 15837
HUD: Added a help message in the DEAD screen telling the player to press DONE to spawn. (dbzao) 15839

Only downside is that you need to actually click the DONE button with the mouse at least once. After that you can use ENTER to spam the spawn point if it's a little bugged, but you can't just select a spawn point and press ENTER, you need to use the mouse first. I think the positive effect outweighs this negative one.

This is probably the best suggestion i've heard in a long time, I'm all for it

'[R-DEV wrote: Only downside is that you need to actually click the DONE button with the mouse at least once. After that you can use ENTER to spam the spawn point if it's a little bugged, but you can't just select a spawn point and press ENTER, you need to use the mouse first. I think the positive effect outweighs this negative one.

Can't you put some kind of check in the options that activates or disactivates the script? It could be on by default but since I never have any trouble with the current system and don't like the prospect of having to click Done all the time (and I'm sure most experienced players will agree), a toggle on/off button might be the solution to fully integrate it without any downsides.

1.) In my opinion totally unnecessary as the squad leader has a coordinating/communicating role and should be far in the back of the squad near the medic. The SL will most of the time relay information and observe the overall situation to make the right decisions.

When I lead a squad in PR, preferably with mumble. I make 2 (fire)teams, 1 attack/flanking team and 1 support(Medic,AR,SL). I have my attacking team leading the way, while I have my support team covering their *** and I can look at the situation and make my next move.

This way there is little chance of me or the medic getting shot first in a fire fight and I will have my AR deployed, ready to return fire and give my attacking team some support while they move to cover and start shooting. I rarely use the rallypoint as I rarely loose a squad member without the medic being able to get him up again. I think the rallypoint is most useful when people join my squad half way during the round.

2.) I've had this some times but I got used to the clicking away and closing of the spawn screen. I think having a button to press for spawning is the way to go here.

1.) In my opinion totally unnecessary as the squad leader has a coordinating/communicating role and should be far in the back of the squad near the medic. The SL will most of the time relay information and observe the overall situation to make the right decisions.

When I lead a squad in PR, preferably with mumble. I make 2 (fire)teams, 1 attack/flanking team and 1 support(Medic,AR,SL). I have my attacking team leading the way, while I have my support team covering their *** and I can look at the situation and make my next move.

This way there is little chance of me or the medic getting shot first in a fire fight and I will have my AR deployed, ready to return fire and give my attacking team some support while they move to cover and start shooting. I rarely use the rallypoint as I rarely loose a squad member without the medic being able to get him up again. I think the rallypoint most useful when people join my squad half way during the round.

2.) I've had this some times but I got used to the clicking away and closing of the spawn screen. I think having a button to press for spawning is the way to go here.

i support the fix for spawning but am a little split for the adding rallies to medics. It would make a lot of players give up instead of waiting since it is too risky for the medic to come out. After all if they all die that's 6 tickets and a 15 minute walk from the nearest FOB. If they give up and spawn after the medic and another guy rushed further ahead, not only would they have lost only 3 tickets, they don't have to take a long walk, and they could already be in a good position and in full strength to deal with the ambush.

i disagree with people who say SL should be in the back. I lead from the front and rarely am ever the first to die. the problem isnt leading from the front, the problem is who "crosses the street" first. A good leader will take the helm but when facing an open area will send one or two of his men first who can A) find out if there's enemy around, and B) cover everyone else' crossing.

I also disagree with people who get the medic and SL to hide some place when engaging in a fire fight. As a soldier i realize that that's two guns out of the fight. Yes they should stay back, they should be in a good position of cover but have their heads up and be providing fire support. It's like people who drive a humvee into an area then all dismount, it's stupid. Not only is it sitting around waiting to be destroyed, you've also disarmed yourself of the biggest gun in your detachment. In a fire fight with equal numbers, kits and similar lay of land, my squad almost always wins simply due to the fact that both me and my medic are in the fight. every time i get an SL that tells me to hide when i'm playing medic i facepalm. Every real soldier will tell you, "everyone is a rifleman first." and for good reason.

1.) In my opinion totally unnecessary as the squad leader has a coordinating/communicating role and should be far in the back of the squad near the medic. The SL will most of the time relay information and observe the overall situation to make the right decisions.

Should vs How people actually play. =(

When I lead a squad in PR, preferably with mumble. I make 2 (fire)teams, 1 attack/flanking team and 1 support(Medic,AR,SL). I have my attacking team leading the way, while I have my support team covering their *** and I can look at the situation and make my next move.

Even still, if your medic had the ability to use a rallypoint if say your entire fireteam were killed (like... dead dead) then they could rally you back up at a different point.

This way there is little chance of me or the medic getting shot first in a fire fight and I will have my AR deployed, ready to return fire and give my attacking team some support while they move to cover and start shooting.

Oddly enough, even if i'm in the situations, I always tend to be the first person sniped whenever I play as medic OR squad leader...

I rarely use the rallypoint as I rarely loose a squad member without the medic being able to get him up again. I think the rallypoint most useful when people join my squad half way during the round.
2.) I've had this some times but I got used to the clicking away and closing of the spawn screen. I think having a button to press for spawning is the way to go here.

I agree with the rest of this.

i support the fix for spawning but am a little split for the adding rallies to medics. It would make a lot of players give up instead of waiting since it is too risky for the medic to come out. After all if they all die that's 6 tickets and a 15 minute walk from the nearest FOB. If they give up and spawn after the medic and another guy rushed further ahead, not only would they have lost only 3 tickets, they don't have to take a long walk, and they could already be in a good position and in full strength to deal with the ambush.

Like i said, if it was done with EXTREME limitation, it shouldn't be a problem. Plus, like you said, remain as a team.

And yeah.



So, yeah. I do hope this gets added. It wouldn't do too much damage, and honestly, I think if the devs were to try it with just the medic and to add different limitations, I think they would probably see the results pretty quickly in beta testing, and probably decide whether or not it's useful.

A few other ideas

Player must have medic kit for x time before able to use said rally, as well as meeting all other medic-rally requirements.

SL must Pg. UP or pg Down (Vote Yes/No) upon medic's rally request.

Higher requirement settings than SL rally. Example: more distance between Medic-Rally and enemies

Anyway to make people who spawn on medic have half of the ammo they usually have?

really i see it as meant for a secondary option. There are so many ways you could implement the system.

Anyways, Wo0Do0 could probably explain better than i could about how this would really work..

1. medic is important enough as it is. if the medic was any more important i would SL as the medic....

2. im confused on how you said you would use it in python. but generally it sounds like a good plan for new players.

i like both ideas

exceptinstead of a medoc it should be anyone
and you should need at least 2 people

LithiumFox wrote: Like i said, if it was done with EXTREME limitation, it shouldn't be a problem. Plus, like you said, remain as a team.

but there is no limitation which can stop that from happening. SL is dead, no enemies within x meters, and with a squadmate or two within y meters.

possible solution would be to add a minimum distance from enemy controlled flags, however that does not solve the problem of gaining advantageous ground if it were not directly related to a flag. If an ambush killed the first 4 guys in the crossing of a field, the last two who made it across should not be allowed to respawn the rest of the guys in on the other side. this would mean that the ambushed squad still managed to get their full force closer to their goal while the ambush was meaningless save for the fact that you killed 4 tickets. The respawned men should need to attempt the crossing again or try something else to regroup.

Bringerof_D wrote:but there is no limitation which can stop that from happening. SL is dead, no enemies within x meters, and with a squadmate or two within y meters.

possible solution would be to add a minimum distance from enemy controlled flags, however that does not solve the problem of gaining advantageous ground if it were not directly related to a flag. If an ambush killed the first 4 guys in the crossing of a field, the last two who made it across should not be allowed to respawn the rest of the guys in on the other side. this would mean that the ambushed squad still managed to get their full force closer to their goal while the ambush was meaningless save for the fact that you killed 4 tickets. The respawned men should need to attempt the crossing again or try something else to regroup.

>_> is there no way to implement the squad leader Vote Yes/Vote No option?

(you know, Pg. Up Pg. Down?)