Project Reality Forums

Ive been trying to get my friend who likes tactile shooters into pr for a while and they finally agreed to give it a shot. He has a Mac book Pro

Specs
2.0GHz or 2.2GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 processor with 6MB shared L3 cache; or optional 2.3GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 processor with 8MB shared L3 cache 4GB (two 2GB SO-DIMMs) of 1333MHz DDR3 memory; two SO-DIMM slots support up to 8GB

500GB or 750GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive; optional 750GB 5400-rpm hard drive, 500GB 7200-rpm hard drive, or 128GB, 256GB, or 512GB solid-state drive6 8x slot-loading SuperDrive (DVD?R DL/DVD?RW/CD-RW) Maximum write: 8x DVD-R, DVD+R; 4x DVD-R DL (double layer), DVD+R DL (double layer), DVD-RW, DVD+RW; 24x CD-R; 10x CD-RW Maximum read: 8x DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-ROM; 6x DVD-ROM (double layer DVD-9), DVD-R DL (double layer), DVD+R DL (double layer), DVD-RW, DVD+RW; 24x CD

I don't know anything about computers so i don't know what is useful in that mess of information.

This should be moved to bf2pr support I think.

If it is the 2011 15 inch or 17 inch macbook pro, then he'll be able to play PR at semi-reasonable fps, however his details will have to be reasonably low.

If he has the 13 inch version, then his laptop is like mine (no discrete graphics processor) and as such even if he runs PR in a 800x600 window with everything at low, he'll still struggle to break 30fps on a lot of maps.

I hope that helps you. Basically you just have to figure out his screen size (assuming it's one of the latest models) to know if he can play.

What do you consider reasonable i get around 20 fps on low settings on maps like mutrah and I can play fine and win fire fights.

maniac1031 wrote:What do you consider reasonable i get around 20 fps on low settings on maps like mutrah and I can play fine and win fire fights.

To me, half the monitor's refresh rate is the minimum acceptable rate (so 30), but some people do feel that 20-30 is acceptable.

With this laptop with the intel HD whatever IGP (like the 13 inch macbook), my computer got down to 7 fps on fallujah at some places, 12 on ramiel, and ~17-25 on karbala.

Those were not acceptable to me.

I have played PR since early 2006 on reasonably top notch hardware since the early days (gaming being my primary pastime), and as such I really notice the low frame rates heavily and the lack of detail due to low settings. I can definitely say that target acquisition on low settings is far harder than at 1680x1050 @ all high @ 8x AA @ >60fps. That being said I'm only really testing fps these days, not playing the game (as it's rather impossible with <30fps for me)

Im playing on a iMac 27" with Core i5 Quad 2,8 GHz.
4 GB 1333 Ram
Res. 2560 x 1440
Opt. all High (lighting mid for targets in buildings & hidingspots)
AA x8

OS WIN 7 64Bit Home Premium

Works better then on my PC, which was a 4 x 3GHz, Res. 1920 x 1200.


PR should running very well on the Mac book Pro , but there is no Info about the Graphics Card.

I think the AMD 6490M 256 MB Version can't handle it very well.

I played PR for two straight years on a 2008 MacBook Pro, as long as he gets a 15" or 17" it will run fine. If he can, he should get the faster processor, in the 2011 editions it is paired with a slightly more powerful card with a lot more memory.

will he need windows xp or windows 7

maniac1031 wrote:will he need windows xp or windows 7

Yes...

I'm on an old macbook pro (think 2009) and I need to run it on all low with the odd medium. I get low framerate. Used to be on medium but PR just got a bigger demand with the recent updates. So your friend should be AOK!

Good news about the iMac there Pete since I'm going to save up for the top of the line iMac as well. Hoping it can run ARMA 2 as well. Have you tried running that?

Psyrus wrote:Yes...

What about vista and how the hell do we go about putting it on his mac?

maniac1031 wrote:What about vista and how the hell do we go about putting it on his mac?

Don't bother with Vista. I know very little about the whole mac->windows thing, but something about bootcamp or the like is the way to go I've heard? It's basically a dualboot with windows/iOS afaik. Pretty easy if it's like doing a linux/windows dual boot, just load a custom bootloader or even just use the standard ones if you're game, install to separate partitions and away you go.

cyberzomby wrote:Good news about the iMac there Pete since I'm going to save up for the top of the line iMac as well. Hoping it can run ARMA 2 as well. Have you tried running that?

This isn't meant as a macbash... but is there any reason you're willing to pay the (rather insane) 'apple premium' for a gaming desktop? Imo you're be infinitely better off $/performance wise by just building your own and throwing on Windows. You can customize the UI to get a Maccish feel (although not as streamlined) but with all the money you save from building yourself you could easily grab a SSD which would be cost prohibitive with the MAC, meaning you have to spend less time worrying about interface design & more time being productive .

For a quick example. On the US Mac site for a 21.5" Mac (the only choice besides 27"):


Now for a cool 2.2 grand, you can grab:

CPU: Intel Core i5 2500K
MOBO: ASRock Z68 Extreme4 B3
RAM: Kingston 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3-1333
CASE: Your choice @ ~$180-200
GPU: 2x 2GB AMD Radeon HD6950
SSD: Crucial M4 128GB
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB
PSU: Silverstone Strider Plus ST75F-P 750W
OS: Win 7 Updgrade/OEM - ~$100
SCREEN: 24" BenQ E2420HD
MOUSE/KB: Your choice @ ~$100

I mean I can't see how a person could choose the Mac over that. You get an overclockable CPU/Mobo, a case of your choice, 2x graphics cards (with like a billion times more processing grunt than HD6770), SSD+HDD combo, Bigger screen. It'll also be upgrade-able in the future.

The one time where I say "fair enough, go ahead and get the mac" is when people need/really want the propriety mac software.

So the TL: DR version of this post is... if you plan on using your computer primarily for gaming, especially PR/PR:ARMA, don't waste your money on an apple based product.

So you can't with vista? Also you misunderstood when I said I didn't understand computers

"I know very little about the whole mac->windows thing, but something about bootcamp or the like is the way to go I've heard? It's basically a dualboot with windows/iOS afaik. Pretty easy if it's like doing a linux/windows dual boot, just load a custom bootloader or even just use the standard ones if you're game, install to separate partitions and away you go."

I have no idea what the hell any of that means

Psyrus: I know mac's are overpriced but I need it for my line of work. You can get close to Apple's UI with windows plug-ins but you cant get it all the way like mac. And thats what I love. I just love and like to work with all the small things mac OS offers over/instead of Windows.

And also: I got an internship at the benelux's biggest gaming magazine because I invested in a mac. They worked on mac's and had mac experience (and Apple's editing suite experience) as a must need experience. Thankfully I had that So I fall under the category you're ok with on that part.

But to get back to your suggestion: I am thinking about building just a gaming PC and have a mac next to it for my professional work. As I said I'm on a macbook that cant run ARMA 2 but I really want to play that. But, yesterday, I also spend 4(!!!) hours rendering my signature out of a 3d program. So I need an upgrade on both fronts. Spare-time and professional-time. Still not sure what to do haha.

Maniac: You can certainly play it with Vista on a mac. Bootcamp offers you an easy way of installing another OS (mainly Windows) next to your mac OS. When you start up your computer you hold a button to enter a menu. In that menu you make a choice: Do I boot mac or windows. It boots either one of them. You cant switch without rebooting.

maniac1031 wrote:So you can't with vista? Also you misunderstood when I said I didn't understand computers

"I know very little about the whole mac->windows thing, but something about bootcamp or the like is the way to go I've heard? It's basically a dualboot with windows/iOS afaik. Pretty easy if it's like doing a linux/windows dual boot, just load a custom bootloader or even just use the standard ones if you're game, install to separate partitions and away you go."

I have no idea what the hell any of that means

Oh vista is possible... it's just a terrible OS (operating system) imo compared to the two alternatives (7 & XP). I've used all three and if they were my only choices my order of preference would by far be:
1. Windows 7 (any version above basic)
2. Windows XP Pro (64bit)
3. Windows Vista - Only if it were the last operating system on earth

Oh and sorry for rambling a bit in geek speak... I'm a computer science graduate so as you can imagine I sometimes lose track of what 'non computer' people know

Here's a step by step guide, pretty good from what I read:
Using Boot Camp to install Windows 7 on your Mac: The Complete Walkthrough ? Simple Help

cyberzomby wrote:Psyrus: I know mac's are overpriced but I need it for my line of work. You can get close to Apple's UI with windows plug-ins but you cant get it all the way like mac. And thats what I love. I just love and like to work with all the small things mac OS offers over/instead of Windows.

Have you considered just having the one windows based PC and doing this?
Snow Leopard in VMware Windows 7 | Redmond Pie

I got sick of dualbooting fedora/windows for my uni degree (all my uni stuff had to be compiled with linux rather than windows) and even openGL was fine running in emulated mode. I imagine you'd have very little performance impact with the relatively lightweight iOS interface. Something to consider perhaps, saving quite a bit of money

cyberzomby wrote:But to get back to your suggestion: I am thinking about building just a gaming PC and have a mac next to it for my professional work. As I said I'm on a macbook that cant run ARMA 2 but I really want to play that. But, yesterday, I also spend 4(!!!) hours rendering my signature out of a 3d program. So I need an upgrade on both fronts. Spare-time and professional-time. Still not sure what to do haha.

IMO that makes my above suggestion of vmware even better... I mean honestly the breadth of mac-only stuff is tiny, and for that I would use vmware (or use it *most* of the time if you prefer the interface) and then any time you need windows functionality or processing grunt, you just minimize the vm and bam you're back to windows.

To the OP, that specific model will run PR no problem, but he needs to install windows (via Bootcamp) for this to work. See the links in the post above for how to do that. Oh and yeah, don't get vista

@Psyrus, Why choose VMware and subject yourself to all the problems of a PC with only the appearance of OSX to console you? The major appeal of OSX is that, unlike Windows, it's incredibly stable straight out of the box and doesn't require a fair amount of experience in computing to fix small niggly problems that constantly arise or to just tweak things. It is also superior for graphics/sound/editing software and for general design purposes, not to mention the lack of viruses. VMware gives you all the problems of a PC with none of the advantages of a Mac aside from aesthetics...

Anyway, this Mac vs PC stuff is just fanboy nonsense from both sides. Both have strengths and weaknesses, and neither is intrinsically superior, simply they are better for different things. Personally, I prefer macs due to their versatility and stability, but should there come a day when all I want from my machine is high end gaming, ill buy a PC.

I wasn't here to start some religious debate

I don't think at any point I even mentioned something negative about macs. I was merely providing an option for both cyberzombie and maniac that was viable. As a user of windows, linux & macs [albeit the last one the least] I can say confidently that I disagree with many of your assertions (except some of the platform specific programs) but again I'm not here to convince anyone about the virtues of a specific OS. My suggestion is completely legitimate and I honestly stand by it as the solution for the best of both worlds (OS preference with best $/performance ratio).

As a final point I found your statement about PCs needing a lot of comp experience to get stable & subsequent point of Mac users being designers/developers somehow not having a lot of comp experience a bit funny

Dont worry Psyrus, I never took it as that. Its a good suggestion and I like how your thinking along for us

but I know I'll be spending most of my time in Mac as I do now. And its not so much the mac specific apps I need (apart from Final Cut Pro) but more the workflow and interface.

If I buy a gaming PC I'll most likely switch to the windows version of the 3d program to knock out a render and edit it further in Photoshop or After-Effects on my mac. That is, until I have struck gold and can afford the mac variant of my Windows machine

On a side note: I also have an iPhone and with the new mobile OS and new Mac OS coming and the cloud sharing of calendars and files I really dont want to switch over and lose that functionality. Typical mac fanboy that Duke described. I'm really not against Windows or anything btw

Psyrus wrote: I don't think at any point I even mentioned something negative about macs. I was merely providing an option for both cyberzombie and maniac that was viable. As a user of windows, linux & macs [albeit the last one the least] I can say confidently that I disagree with many of your assertions (except some of the platform specific programs) but again I'm not here to convince anyone about the virtues of a specific OS. My suggestion is completely legitimate and I honestly stand by it as the solution for the best of both worlds (OS preference with best $/performance ratio).

I agree, you said nothing explicitly negative aside from 'seeing no reason why anyone would get a mac other than for proprietary software', hence I interpreted your suggestion for VMware as if the only reason for getting a mac was software. My reply simply illustrated the other reasons why a mac might validly be the way to go. As a user with substantial experience with both Windows and OSX in equal measure, those are the key reasons why I could see a mac being an attractive option.

As a final point I found your statement about PCs needing a lot of comp experience to get stable & subsequent point of Mac users being designers/developers somehow not having a lot of comp experience a bit funny

Clearly you misread. The point about a 'fair amount of experience' simply meant that the average joe computer consumer has no idea how to fix the vast majority of issues that commonly arise with PCs, and that 'something that just works' obviously appeals. Clearly your computer science degree allows you to breeze past the vast majority of PC issues, and I agree that its sometimes easy to forget just how computer illiterate the vast majority of users actually are

The point about designers/developers preferring macs was entirely separate, and nowhere did i say that they generally lacked experience. The point simply was that design/media firms prefer macs for their strengths in design software and, crucially, simplicity of workflow, i.e. not just appearance.

Finally, i concede that perhaps i went a bit knee-jerk towards the end. Somehow i managed to respond to some mac bashing in a different thread at completely the wrong person, apologies.

I run PR near high with very decent FPS on my 2010 macbook pro.

The reason I didnt spend 2.2 grand on a desktop that can run anygame on high, is that I simply don't have the time to game I used to. I also can't carry around a desktop with me to tea houses and look hipster.

I didnt read anything about a graficcard? What are the specs of his video?