New MEC Title

Eden · Post by **Eden** » 2006-05-21 01:38

I was going to answer those points because a few of them are, well flawed, Point #3 for example, numbers count for nothing exept it was Russia who effective ended the war.

But I wont go on, my point is the Iranian Forces be it the Artesh or the IRGC are a good choice to replace the non existant MEC. they are the 6th largest army in the world, they have the weapons and technology to make the middle eastern side a fun army to play and realistic at the same time, if you have a better choice of middle eastern army then please tell me.

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-21 01:40

Eden wrote:I was going to answer those points because a few of them are, well flawed, Point #3 for example, numbers count for nothing exept it was Russia who effective ended the war.

The Russians left WWI in 1917 a clear year before it ended...and they effectively ended it?!

Eden wrote: But I wont go on, my point is the Iranian Forces be it the Artesh or the IRGC are a good choice to replace the non existant MEC. they are the 6th largest army in the world, they have the weapons and technology to make the middle eastern side a fun army to play and realistic at the same time, if you have a better choice of middle eastern army then please tell me.

A coalition

Eden · Post by **Eden** » 2006-05-21 01:41

Name a current coalition?

I think he means old British Centurions and American M48's.

Like South Africas Centurions (Olifant series MBT)

Actualy I was reffering to tanks like the FV 4201 Chieftain

The Russians left WWI in 1917 a clear year before it ended...and they effectively ended it?!

Reffering to WW2, the russians were in nearly the same situation, men but no weapons, they did however push them back neverthe less and ended the war. Mainly down to the fact that they would die ether way though I waould expect they would have rather died running to wards the germans than running back to there own lines.

Not mentioned much but 25 million Russians died and they never were given the credit they deserve.

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-21 01:45

Great - so you are referring to 19060s/1970s tanks! You think that can take on a Challenger II with a modern well trained crew?

Plus the Khalid tanks are in a bad state with low armaments.

And did I miss something or is Iran now at war with the US?! No?! So we are still using our creative minds so a coalition can still be thought of!

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-05-21 01:49

Eden I agree the Russians haven't gotten the credit they deserve for beating the Germans. This is mostly because of the Cold War and some of the nastier things they did in reprisal agaisnt the Germans.

Eden · Post by **Eden** » 2006-05-21 01:50

Yes true you could create a coalition but then everything about it is fake, its like saying oh, lets make a mod that is as realistic as posable then completely ignoreing that and createing a fantacy army.

I have already mentioned that PR is not about the war between contrys, have a look at my previous posts on that. We are not at war with China does that mean they should be removed from PR? no because that isnt what the mod is about.

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-05-21 01:52

Eden wrote: Actualy I was reffering to tanks like the FV 4201 Chieftain

I need to catch up on my knowlage of were decommissioned British hardware has ended up.

Edit: Mav, look at post 45, theres a sized list.

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-05-21 01:56

Well on the realism front for the colation maybe make one of countrys that are actually likely to join up to fight the UK/US coaltion such as Libya and Iran for example.

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-21 01:58

Eden wrote:Reffering to WW2, the russians were in nearly the same situation, men but no weapons, they did however push them back neverthe less and ended the war. Mainly down to the fact that they would die ether way though I waould expect they would have rather died running to wards the germans than running back to there own lines.

Not mentioned much but 25 million Russians died and they never were given the credit they deserve.

Your history is incredibly off if you think that Russia won becuase of the fact its men were willing to die in vast numbers. Quite simply they weren't - especially in Stalingrad. The victory was a mixture of luck/weather/German weakness. This is a very different topic so don't make 1/2 baked comparisons

Eden wrote: Yes true you could create a coalition but then everything about it is fake, its like saying oh, lets make a mod that is as realistic as posable then completely ignoreing that and createing a fantacy army.

I have already mentioned that PR is not about the war between contrys, have a look at my previous posts on that. We are not at war with China does that mean they should be removed from PR? no because that isnt what the mod is about.

Well done your destroying your own point....if the US was engaged with China the number of troops + their hardware would be roughly equal - it would be a 'fair fight' in many ways.

US vs Iran = slaughter. Iran would be outgunned in any engagement, not having the number of tanks, armour of the US.

Plus your missing the point that it is damned insensitive to say US will fight country X when it is distinctly possible this will happen soon,

@ PENCE - I think MEC should be considered as Oman, UAE, Egypt, Syria, Iran

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-05-21 02:00

True I think it would be very unlikey that China and the US would ever be engaged in a convential fight agaisnt each other due to very silimar forces now the US and Iran would be a walkover.

Doedel · Post by **Doedel** » 2006-05-21 02:02

Personally I'd like to see more realistic sides in PR... Iran is an option as a war with them would be realistic (atleast more realistic than a war with a coalition of Middle Eastern states). North Korea is also an option, and China still fields tons of Soviet-era stuff that I'm sure will be added. But yes, "MEC" is far too unrealistic, change it with Iran, and add an Insurgency faction to boot (like the ones from Special Forces?). As long as you make it bias-free and apolitical you shouldn't be offending anybody -- you're simply reflecting real-world conflicts in a computer game.

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-21 02:05

No china doesn't use a bunch of ex Soviet stuff!

It uses these weapons as a base

Norinco KBU 88
Caliber: 5.8 x 42 mm
Weight, with empty magazine : 3.25 kg
Magazine capacity : 20 round
Cyclic rate of fire : n -a
Modes of Fire : Semi-automatic
Muzzle velocity: 930 m/s (3050 f/s)
3-9X tactical scope
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/kina3.jpg
http://pic.tiexue.net/pics/2005_9_7_44391_444391.jpg

Norinco CAR 95
Caliber: 5.8 x 42 mm
Weight, with empty magazine : 3.25 kg
Magazine capacity : 30 round
Cyclic rate of fire : 650 RPM
Modes of Fire : Semi-automatic, three-round burst, full auto
Muzzle velocity: 930 m/s (3050 f/s)
http://www.free-time.ru/military/img/b/qbz-95carb_b.jpg
(already in game as the QBZ-97 – QBZ-97 is 5.56 version or QBZ95)

Norinco QBZ 95
Caliber: 5.8 x 42 mm
Weight, with empty magazine : 3.45 kg
Magazine capacity : 30 round
Cyclic rate of fire : 650 RPM
Modes of Fire : Semi-automatic, three-round burst, full auto
Muzzle velocity: 930 m/s (3050 f/s)
Can be fit with Grenade launcher 35mm
http://world.guns.ru/assault/type95-1.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/d20modern/images ... /78573.jpg
http://bemil.chosun.com/spboard/id/boar ... qbz-95.jpg

Norinco QBB 95
Caliber: 5.8 x 42 mm
Weight, with empty magazine : 3.95 kg
Magazine capacity : 75 round (drum)
Cyclic rate of fire : 650 RPM
Modes of Fire : Semi-automatic, three-round burst, full auto
Muzzle velocity: 970 m/s ( 3182 ft/s)
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/individ ... le58_4.jpg
http://rjl7572.nease.net/images/wqzb/qbb95-3.jpg

JS 9mm 1st Type SMG (silenced)
Calibre: 9 x 19mm
Weight, with empty magazine: 2.4kg (with silencer)
Magazine capacity: 20/30 rounds
http://www.securityarms.com/cgi-local/p ... /3029a.jpg
http://world.guns.ru/smg/type05smg2.jpg
http://world.guns.ru/smg/type05smg1.jpg
http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/dat ... mm_SMG.jpg

Norinco CFQ-9
Calibre: 9 x 19mm
Weight, with empty magazine: 1.9kg
Muzzle velocity: 400m/s
Magazine capacity: 15 rounds
Type of fire: Semi Auto , burst, full-auto
http://www.securityarms.com/cgi-local/p ... s/2802.jpg

QSZ-92 Pistol
Calibre: 5.8 x 21 mm
Weight, with empty magazine: 0.75 Kilograms
Magazine capacity: 20 rounds
Muzzle velocity: 350 M/s
http://www.civiliangunner.com/images/QSZ.jpg
http://www.civiliangunner.com/images/QSZ-laser.jpg

Insurgents against the US?! This is unrealistic with the maps currently set up.

I would agree with EDEN and say that we need an army to face the US and not some rag tag Jihaders

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-05-21 02:06

Ok, say Iran built up its force and meany Mid-Northern African and Middle Eastern countrys joined together... Now it needs a name and guess what, this thread is trying to replace that name.

Well done your destroying your own point

Don't be so harsh Mav, lets all keep this civil.

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-05-21 02:09

'[R-PUB wrote:maverick']
Insurgents against the US?! This is unrealistic with the maps currently set up.

I would agree with EDEN and say that we need an army to face the US and not some rag tag Jihaders

Too true, i hate insurgents in games, it fully defies the point of a game: Go beyond realisum.

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-05-21 02:10

What nationally is Norinco? Plus we really need to give the PLA the right weapons instead of bloody regular AK's even the MEC get better weapons than them.

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-21 02:10

I don't know why Africa would get involved!!

And yes - Eden I apologise

But Pence we need to know who we are dealing with before we choose a name...

And Trog - Norinco is Chinese

Eden · Post by **Eden** » 2006-05-21 02:11

'[R-PUB wrote:maverick']Your history is incredibly off if you think that Russia won becuase of the fact its men were willing to die in vast numbers. Quite simply they weren't - especially in Stalingrad. The victory was a mixture of luck/weather/German weakness. This is a very different topic so don't make 1/2 baked comparisons

the Russians reached Berlin first, effectifly Ending the war,if the the Russians reached Berlin a few hours later it is very likely the US would have reached Berlin first effectivly Ending the war.

'[R-PUB wrote:maverick']
Well done your destroying your own point....if the US was engaged with China the number of troops + their hardware would be roughly equal - it would be a 'fair fight' in many ways.

US vs Iran = slaughter. Iran would be outgunned in any engagement, not having the number of tanks, armour of the US.

Plus your missing the point that it is damned insensitive to say US will fight country X when it is distinctly possible this will happen soon,

You just not listening this has absolutly nothing to do with current wars, past wars or future wars, its to do with realistic Armys, thats it, full stop. the Iranian army is the strongest signle army in the middle east. Createing a fake army woul destroy the point in makeing this mod.

Now im not saying they we should use the Iranian Forces to replace the MEC, all im saying is its 1 posability of 1 middle eastern army that could replace the MEC.

As for the US invadeing Iran, thats another story completely. Bush has to some how keep his power, he then has to gain back the trust of the US citizens, he then has to finish up in Iraq and then he can think about invadeing Iran. thats going to take a while.

edit: ooo a lot of posts while I was typeing, maverick I also apologise if i am comeing off as agressive, I just dont want a fake army

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-05-21 02:12

Well Bush won't be reallected in two years and I doubt we will go to war with Iran in the space of two years.

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-21 02:14

Please READ my posts - I use the Russia point as an example. You used it as examplification of numbers winning over power. I showed that that example was not particulary true and for some reason you ignore the point and make some point about arriving in Berlin.

Realistic army - Egypt has the best infantry in the area.

Eden · Post by **Eden** » 2006-05-21 02:15

Actualy I was thinking of Egypt, but I am not sure of its current status in the world, how friendly it is with China, UK, US etc.

there defenetly a good posability to replace the MEC, come to think of it, not only does it take focus of current events its from what I know a relitivly unxplored army.