[HUD] Limited kits on spawn menu

[Lt Mic]

One concern about the SAW spawnable kit that just sprang to mind. Take an insurgency map for example, say the SAW gunner is killed and the enemy steals his kit (as seen ALL the time with any kit). Now, this squad member who just died would normally have to spawn on the RP, now no longer equipped with this powerful weapon. However, now he can spawn straight back into the fight with his trusty SAW again, again potentially to be stolen once more.

I foresee a Taliban team equpped with many 4x scoped SAW's because its no longer limited and too plentiful, possibly tipping the balance. The argument against of course is players should be more careful, not spawn in if too dangerous yada yada. Players are hardcoded and do stupid things.

I'm not saying I don't like the change, in fact I really like the fact that a squad can always have a SAW gunner. Just thought I'd point out a potential game play change that could tip the balance slightly.

Agreed 100%

Mic's version of limiting kits:
Normal kits (unlimited)
Rifleman (optics and ironsights)
Rifleman Specialist

Infantry kits (squad limited)
Officer (optics and ironsights)
1xMedic
Automatic Rifleman (ironsights)

Infantry kits (Requestable from crates; squad and team limited)
3-4xAutomatic Rifleman (optics)
(^one free slot i t rose or you want comando back? :twisted
Marksman
Rifleman AT
Grenadier

and you can have only one AR ironsights or optics in one sq

i don't say that change is BAD but i think that my version is more balanced
we now can see M249 optics(Brits USA) so other(PLA, MEC ect.) might not have optics
or need new models/versions of AR

We didn't have time to work on the unlock system. We will try for the next version.

IRONY? or TRUTH?

[-=TB=- Sturmjaeger]

no, one medic is perfect. If the medic is good he should never put himself in danger and it would force squad to fallback when there's too many wounded rather than asking the medic to heal 5 people at the same moment what he can't do and shouldn't do.

Yeah of cousre... medic never should himself in danger. Haha!

Say that on Fallujah or Al Basrah where the insurgent run like headless chicken over the map and try to kill someone. They dont look at there stats. Just want to kill something. And if the got a hit and die a long bloody dead cause no one plays collaba...etc and the squadleader are cheap and dont share their field dressing they try to use their remaining time to kill someone at all costs. And you as a medic should never himself and danger...

[-=TB=- Sturmjaeger]

Quote:
We didn't have time to work on the unlock system. We will try for the next version.
IRONY? or TRUTH?

I think truth. These changes are for 0.86. I think 0.86 is just a fix for the upcoming 1.5 Battlefield Patch to guarantee PR works with the new patch.

[cyberzomby]

Yea Rico has a good point there! But I guess it should be the squad's own problem if they let there kits be stolen so much. If they retreat so fast or dont pin the fallen comrades positions than its there own fault that the kits fell in to enemy hands.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

If you get killed because of some bug/lag/exploit/fluke then bad luck, playing cautiously will still improve your chances of survival.

It makes sense for PR, a lot of the design decisions have been about encouraging players to play more tactically and carefully.

Having less medics around won't make it less fun for me, when I'm a medic I already focus on healing and reviving my squad more then fighting. If someone goes medic just so they can heal themselves and kill more people then they're not really playing the mod how it was intended.

You don't understand. No matter how many design decisions you do, this mod is still using an engine that was not made for realistic play, so many things you say are "badluck" happen more often than they should. Being "insta-proned" is not badluck, it is standard. You can't lean, so when you look around a corner and trying to be "tactical", you could easily be shot. Point is, you can be as safe and tactical as possible in this game, but there are still too many ways to die as infantry and too many variables to being killed. I mean, you can trip or 2 feet down a staircase and need healing. 2 FEET LOL!!!!!!

Now that lone medic will have to worry about healing himself most of the time, then healing every single one of his squadmembers everytime they trip or get slightly wounded. At least with 2 medics, solved that problem.

If you find supportive/specialized roles boring just don't play them, stick to rifleman and killing people. Your squad/team will want people in those roles as everyone benefits and people who do enjoy them will fill the positions.

Yea, and when no one goes medic, you will know why. Medic is more of a burden and less furfilling lately. I get people who want to play medic, but rarely do they want to play medic for more than 1 round. Medic should be something furfilling to play, not a burden and with only 1 medic per squad, I feel this will make it even worse.

Instead of splitting up your squad into 2 fire teams, you can work with another infantry squad using mumble. I know that's easier said then done but if you really want it you'll organize it.

That definately is easier said than done. Not every server has mumble yet either. That is tournament play, not average pub play.

[jimbosmith]

i think increasing the medic to 2 per squad would be fine, but maybe have it where you need 4 or more people in the squad

i can see 1 medic working for organised play, but pubbing may fail. Due to some squads splitting up or having a medic who cant do anything

[Onil]

The Medic and the Automatic Rifleman kits are limited to 1 per squad with at least 3 members and unlimited numbers per team. So you can always have a medic and a SAW gunner in your squad no matter what the team is doing.

I just don't get why there would be unlimited numbers per team... If you're limiting 1 per Squad and there is a limit of 9 squads per team then why not have a limit of 9 kits per team? Or do you want to leave the option for the rejoin trick to have squads full of medics or MG's ?

Please add team limitation.

[T.Nightingale]

M.Warren SAID IT PERFECTLY AND IT SHOULD BE THE OFFICIAL INTRO TO THE GUIDE TO MEDIC.

But again doesn't help with the noobs who dont read guides and tuts.

[Threedroogs]

Why all takling about a squad full of medics? Just increase the limit to 2.

people dont play medic the way they should. i see medics leading the charge into enemy territory all the time, which is poor strategy. if the medic stays back with the SL, one is enough. for me, playing a medic as a normal rifleman wouldnt be fun at all. you're outgunned and overpowered. i have fun as medic when i play a dedicated medic basically only getting kills if the SL's position is overrun by enemies (or when clearing the area to revive someone). as medic, i play close range squad defense only with my primary mission keeping the other 5 guys engaging the enemy. it's not too much work for one medic.

my squads need one good medic and that is it, 100% of the time. when my squads have more than one medic, we are at a severe disadvantage compared to my normal squad because we are minus one scope, a hook, grenades, a special kit, or ammo.

the reason medic should be limited to one per squad is so only a dedicated medic has the kit. i am tired of seeing rambo medics (or medics who act like front line rifleman). when i get random guys in my squad and they take medic, they RARELY play the kit effectively.

[M.Warren]

I had not commented previously on the use of the SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) as it feels to be a subject that is in a gray area. Just as much as I wish to believe that it will work out, I also have some skepticism. Let's think about whats being changed here:

1. All SAW weapons are to be given a scope (of unknown magnification) to each squad.

2. All SAW weapons will no longer be team limited. Each and every squad is entitled to a maximum of one.

Now, it may not seem too much of a difference, but we've taken two major steps away from the norm in PR. Not only have we changed the rules and guidelines for respawning with a limited kit, but we've also added a scope on top of it before we ever had the chance to test the first change. This also brings up another problem. How will SAW's handle while being used with scopes:

A. Are SAW's going to become the new scoped weapon with laser beam accuracy in full auto mode? A brief burst is already very accurate from ironsights. Adding a scope (assuming it has a magnification of a standard Assault Rifle) ontop of that makes it feel like it's taken a step away from it's primary role of suppression and is now on route to becoming a gun to administer a stream of lead with a high amount of precision.

B. How will the SAW's handle in CQB?

C. Will the SAW's handling in CQB prompt a request to have an option to have them in the Ironsight configuration again?

D. Would the implementation of scopes still be necessary at this point if SAW's had an increased suppression effect radius? As in giving a uniquely larger "suppression effect" for SAW's in particular by increasing it's diameter/radius to a value of 1.5 - 2.5 times the current value of a standard assault rifle? This would truely support the concept of "volume of fire" and suppression as it should.

I personally feel that SAW's should have a scope, but a very unique kind of scope for the role. This scope should have a magnification level between the standard Assault Rifle and the use of Ironsights. You really do not need the amount of magnification and precision offered by a standard Assault Rifle scope in this role.

What a SAW gunner really needs is a scope with a very slight magnification zoom that aids in firing at targets between 200-300 (maybe even up to 400) meters, but also allows for a wider of field of vision. The point of a SAW gunner is to have the ability to administer "sweeping fields of fire" and the "suppression effect" properly. Currently in PR most players do not use the "sweeping fields of fire" tactic, nor do they remotely rely on the "suppression effect" like a SAW gunner should be entitled to. This is because most players are straining to see the target at long ranges and they usually have the appearance of ironsights taking up 40-50% of their screen while aiming. Not good. Not good at all.

Please don't think I'm being harsh on the new idea. I am fully aware on how limited SAW's are and how seldom used they've become in PR. They are dangerous, but a prone and stationary target in BF2 and PR usually spells "dead man" for the player using it. I'd like to see them used more, but not potentially become the next uber-lead-streaming-gun.

I just feel that the role of SAW's are heading in the wrong direction. We're giving them range and accuracy as opposed to supporting the proper use of the suppression effect and the tactic on using sweeping fields of fire effectively.

[Skodz]

I really don't get why people complain so much, 1 medic/squad really work very good. If you was using more medic, you was doing something wrong in my opinion.

[Skodz]

About SAW, no big deal really... as a SL, I rarely have the reflex to use a saw gunner in my squad because its not that much useful... They must go prone in order to hit anything and they are the #1 target as soon as ennemies hear them... Having maximum 9 SAW gunner and scoped isn't gonna be a problem in my opinion. This weapon system is overrated.

[Threedroogs]

About SAW, no big deal really... as a SL, I rarely have the reflex to use a saw gunner in my squad because its not that much useful... They must go prone in order to hit anything and they are the #1 target as soon as ennemies hear them... Having maximum 9 SAW gunner and scoped isn't gonna be a problem in my opinion. This weapon system is overrated.

an LMG in the right hands is one of the most devastating weapons on the battlefield. i am not the best at using that weapon but i play with a few guys who are.

i cant wait for the scoped version...

[SocketMan]

Glad the right click is a feature,not a bug.Many new about it,many still don't
(wrong priorities while reading).

A good step forward with the 1 medic per squad,but you can still have a 6 man squad
with 2 (divide into 2 squads/fire teams and mumble+ts to run it)

What about the revives? Is there any chance of dying - when someone is shot and falls down? or can still be revived (unless .50 calibre +)

[Skodz]

A good step forward with the 1 medic per squad,but you can still have a 6 man squad
with 2 (divide into 2 squads/fire teams and mumble+ts to run it)

But there can only be a maximum of 9 squad on each team.

Headshot should kill

[Leeu]

1 medic will be enough if you work as a squad.

Lets hope the "IED/shotgun/rifle/grenade to the head = infinite revive" bug is fixed along with the new limited medic kits.

[[uBp]Irish]

if you look a couple pages back, the dev's said that...

In the next update, the Automatic Rifleman kit will be infinitely more useful. Changes will include......

Undeployed

* Deviation improved for CQB


Deployed

* Deviation settle time increased to eight seconds
* Can be fired from all stances
* 4x Zoom to simulate realistic effective range (this zoom will be on ironsights until 4x optics are added to all conventional MG's, which they will be)
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... post991000
----

however, i swear i saw a post that said the AR will have both Ironsights (or just not zoomed in/better deviation) and scoped

Undeployed:

Ironsights (possibly ontop of the scope? or just better deviation, so you pretty much switch to undeployed and shoot for the middle of the screen)
Deviation improved for CQB
this makes it better in CQB, since you would just shoot where you think you'd hit.

Deployed:

Scoped (4x zoom)
Fired from all stances
Deviation increased
---------

thus, you have both ironsights and scope for the weapon, with both being used differently. however, like I said, i'm trying to find the post that said it might have both, or just the scope with better deviation.

that's for Lt. Mic/Warren wondering about ironsights/Scopes and the need for either or.

[SocketMan]

Lets hope the "IED/shotgun/rifle/grenade to the head = infinite revive" bug is fixed along with the new limited medic kits.

It's not a bug it's a "feature":

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... -kill.html

444 people have voted whether they like it or not and 414 (93%) DO NOT
I have not heard anything that will remove that "feature" so the "bug"/"feature"
will stay, which is somewhat.... surprising.
I think a tank round to the head will still kill,but don't
quote me on that -I have no idea/clue.

[Skodz]

Wait, deployed will fire from any stance ? Standing up, crouching or prone ? Thats interesting but why using undeployed then ?

[fuzzhead]

Well Socketman, a chest wound MIGHT AS WELL kill you as well, seeing as how you wont be standing up and fighting after that.... please, lets not get into the headshot debate again, leave that for another thread....

The LMG might become a problem in that they will be more popular, but I think thats okay because atm these are prety undeseriable kits... however I think changes to the RP system would help alot with the large amounts of LMG kits wandering around and getting killed, but I dont think that will be addressed this patch.

LMG undeployed will have a"shouldered" and over the top of the weapon viewpoint, in the future backup ironsites might get modeled but this is the temp placeholder atm.