Combined Arms:who wants to try it?

[CAS_117]

Its unbalanced for a multiplayer game to give someone a powerfull weapon without ask for an equal skill.
No matter if that weapon is F-16, Tunguska or Mini-nuke Launcher.

Pretty sure that applies to every troop, tank, plane and object ever made in any game ever. Riflemen don't need to zero weapons, tanks don't have to boresight their cannons, players don't need to actually know CPR to revive someone as medic.

I think you need to read the definition of the word "Game".

[Nemus]

Lemme ask you a simple question. Have you played CA betas yet?

If yes, and you still believe what you're saying, then PLEASE continue the discussion.

If no, then GO play it, come back and discuss about balance. You can't speculate about balance when you haven't played it.

I am not sure that you want a discussion.
From the tone of you post you probably need more "Yes" sayers.
Sorry but i am not one of them.
I said my opinion. Liked or not doesnt matter.
Thanks for your permission to post in this thread but i dont need it anymore.

I dont support the total implement of CA in PR.
But if the DEVs want to do it then i will continue play PR.
Its not the end of PR for me just because i dont like some changes.

@CAS I will. But what kind of game?
A tactical shooter or a wannabe simulator?

[CAS_117]

I am not sure that you want a discussion.
From the tone of you post you probably need more "Yes" sayers.
Sorry but i am not one of them.
I said my opinion. Liked or not doesnt matter.
Thanks for your permission to post in this thread but i dont need it anymore.

So you're saying you won't try it. K if you say so. Makes sense though since you know so much about it already.

I dont support the total implement of CA in PR.
But if the DEVs want to do it then i will continue play PR.
Its not the end of PR for me just because i dont like some changes.

Sleep easy cause I don't think that's ever going to happen.

Did it ever occur to you why anyone would spend 4 months working on something that was going to be made anyways? This game is like a concept car or supermodel. Its there to show an idea. It just so happens that our idea kicks so much *** that people are reviewing it before its even released.

Cough.

@CAS I will. But what kind of game?
A tactical shooter or a wannabe simulator?

The kind of game where you are pretending to do something that you really aren't doing. Which would be all of them. Saying that because medics should not be able to revive because the player doesn't actually know first aid is the exact same thing as saying...

hmm...

You know I really am not sure what changes it was you were objecting to but lets pretend its the soflam.

... the same as saying that jets shouldn't be able to target tanks because in reality raw recruits need a bachelors degree, basic training, IFF, and the B course to know what "power", "uncage", "track", and "shoot" are.

So if players only were able to operate weapons which required a realistic amount of skill to use there wouldn't be a whole lot left to argue about let alone actually play between the time said players were gabbing off on internet forums.

Can you zero or clean a rifle? Can you give a 10 digit coordinate? Tune a radio to the correct frequency? Well that alone just removed the guns, the map, and the VOIP system right off the bat. Yet in reality soldiers are perfectly capable of those things. Well most of them anyways.

So that's what everybody has been ranting about here since someone had the apocalyptic vision of making a realism mod on the BF2 engine (I am aware of the irony): "how do we best represent realism?" It so happened that me and a few other bored people decided the best way to do that was to remove fog, let everything lock onto everything else, and spend 30 minutes each morning sobbing over their keyboard before getting to work or maybe that was just me...

[nick20404]

Why don't all the whiners just stfu if you haven't even played the damn mod yet you have no reason to complain about anything. I don't see why CAS or Alex have to defend there mod because of some noobs whining about guns locking on like they do in real life. Show some respect for hard work.

BTW there is allot more features in CA than just guns that lock on.

[Nemus]

So you're saying you won't try it. K if you say so. Makes sense though since you know so much about it already.



Sleep easy cause I don't think that's ever going to happen.

Did it ever occur to you why anyone would spend 4 months working on something that was going to be made anyways? This game is like a concept car or supermodel. Its there to show an idea. It just so happens that our idea kicks so much *** that people are reviewing it before its even released.

Cough.



The kind of game where you are pretending to do something that you really aren't doing. Which would be all of them. Saying that because medics should not be able to revive because the player doesn't actually know first aid is the exact same thing as saying...

hmm...

You know I really am not sure what changes it was you were objecting to but lets pretend its the soflam.

... the same as saying that jets shouldn't be able to target tanks because in reality raw recruits need a bachelors degree, basic training, IFF, and the B course to know what "power", "uncage", "track", and "shoot" are.

So if players only were able to operate weapons which required a realistic amount of skill to use there wouldn't be a whole lot left to argue about let alone actually play between the time said players were gabbing off on internet forums.

Can you zero or clean a rifle? Can you give a 10 digit coordinate? Tune a radio to the correct frequency? Well that alone just removed the guns, the map, and the VOIP system right off the bat. Yet in reality soldiers are perfectly capable of those things. Well most of them anyways.

So that's what everybody has been ranting about here since someone had the apocalyptic vision of making a realism mod on the BF2 engine (I am aware of the irony): "how do we best represent realism?" It so happened that me and a few other bored people decided the best way to do that was to remove fog, let everything lock onto everything else, and spend 30 minutes each morning sobbing over their keyboard before getting to work or maybe that was just me...

I didnt said i wont try it. I said twice that i like it for SP. I dont want FULL (= i like some parts of it) implement in MP.
Please dont change my words

We are not reviewing your work. We talking about your work. If you dont like it then sorry.
A work started because of a disagreement between you and DEVs.
As you can see sometimes the disagreement can produce evolution.
If you still dont like it then sorry again.

Cough cough...

I am an officer in reserve so i know how to clean rifles etc.
Of course in a game you dont have to know them.
But again you use words that i never said.
I said about skill not knowledge. Even for aim with a rifle in PR you need some skill.
And this skill is equal with the damage you can make. Kill an enemy.
With tank also. Find the target, aim etc.

But with your planes the only skill needed for destroy almost everything is just point the beyond visual range radar somewhere and if a target is there automatically locked.
Simple flying its just a joke in BF2 engine and you know that. So whats the skill needed if you dont have to make even a precision aim? (The rockets you made its an other case and i like to see them in PR)
Yes i know that you have threats from AAs but the infantryman is threaten by everything.
We must give him the ability to spread havoc because of that?

Anyway i respect your work. I never thought that someone can put a MFD in F-16 (Btw locked air target must appear as triangle not square .
I hope we can see some parts of it in PR.
But not a game betwen 8 pilots and 8 Tunguskas and the rest 46 players to wait the winner. If you can avoid that then its perfect.

Over and Out

PS @Nick20404 something presented in an open thread so its everybodys right to say his opinion.
If Alex and CAS dont want to defend it its their right too.
The respect its not a "Yes" or "Congratulation" but also the mood to discuss possible problems.
The problems are rejected not their work. So we respect it more than you.
Because of all these dont tell us to stfu. Do it yourself and go play Lock-On (If you can...)

[h3killa]

I'll do it.

[CAS_117]

If you are that concerned about air rape then I would recommend Desert Rats 16 which is tanks only.

[CallMeSnowflake]

Embarrassed by the poor showing by people who pounced on people not in support of this little divergence from the mod. I do like CA; it looks interesting, but people are allowed to voice their opinions. Frankly people who don't like it haven't even said anything negative about the mod, they're simply stated that CA doesn't align with their interests. It takes a pretty thick person to snap at someone for saying "This looks like it might be fun, but it doesn't look like it's for me."

At any rate...I still intend to check the game out before I fully form an opinion, but I do think I like the idea. As it is, I think I might prefer PR and the direction it's going in, but I can't deny that the changes CAS has made look exciting and capable of improving gameplay.

In short I agree with Nemus:

Anyway i respect your work. I never thought that someone can put a MFD in F-16 (Btw locked air target must appear as triangle not square .
I hope we can see some parts of it in PR.
But not a game betwen 8 pilots and 8 Tunguskas and the rest 46 players to wait the winner. If you can avoid that then its perfect.

[CAS_117]

Thank you snowflake.

@Nemus; to each his own I understand. Please try out CA when you have the chance and give feedback. But just a note, I've been meaning to work on a mod like this since early 0.6. The entire PR team has been quite positive about the mod. I highly doubt many of the more drastic changes would fit into PR very well at all.

Why don't all the whiners just stfu if you haven't even played the damn mod yet you have no reason to complain about anything. I don't see why CAS or Alex have to defend there mod because of some noobs whining about guns locking on like they do in real life. Show some respect for hard work.

BTW there is allot more features in CA than just guns that lock on.

nick I appreciate the support, but just not in that way. If you care about me or the work we've been doing, please don't do that. It doesn't do me any good.

[CanuckCommander]

Embarrassed by the poor showing by people who pounced on people not in support of this little divergence from the mod. I do like CA; it looks interesting, but people are allowed to voice their opinions. Frankly people who don't like it haven't even said anything negative about the mod, they're simply stated that CA doesn't align with their interests. It takes a pretty thick person to snap at someone for saying "This looks like it might be fun, but it doesn't look like it's for me."

At any rate...I still intend to check the game out before I fully form an opinion, but I do think I like the idea. As it is, I think I might prefer PR and the direction it's going in, but I can't deny that the changes CAS has made look exciting and capable of improving gameplay.

In short I agree with Nemus:

Since when are we "pouncing" on people who show no interest? I've only told people to try the mod before making conclusions on how "fun" or "balance" people think it is. Actually, people have NOT only said they are disinterested. In fact, they've used words like "unrealistic, "unbalanced" or "no skill," which are in no way neutral words, tones or points of views.

I mean does this sound like "I am not interested, but it sure looks cool?"

But not a game betwen 8 pilots and 8 Tunguskas and the rest 46 players to wait the winner.

Sounds more like a premature conclusion to me...


CAS, one of the most diplomatic persons, would not snap at someone who's "JUST" saying they don't want to play the mod. I don't think I am that kind of person neither. All I've been saying is a HUGE TRY IT!!!!

Apparently people read between the lines, and interpret that as a counter attack or defensive post?

If you all remember, how people like to speculate about how fun or crappy .85 was going to be when it was first announced a few months ago. Before people got to play it, they were making premature conclusions. This is a similar situation. There is nothing more I can say until all of you who are "disinterested," "disliking," or "hating," etc. go download a beta build and try out some stuff on the DM combined arms server with a few people.

[CanuckCommander]

I am not sure that you want a discussion.
From the tone of you post you probably need more "Yes" sayers.
Sorry but i am not one of them.
I said my opinion. Liked or not doesnt matter.
Thanks for your permission to post in this thread but i dont need it anymore.

I dont support the total implement of CA in PR.
But if the DEVs want to do it then i will continue play PR.
Its not the end of PR for me just because i dont like some changes.

@CAS I will. But what kind of game?
A tactical shooter or a wannabe simulator?

Why must you assume? Which part of my post said or even IMPLIED I needed more YES sayers. I'm not a DEV for CA, nor am I contributing any coding or modeling to it. I am simply a player, who was amazed by the incredible work the CA team has done. To be honest, I have nothing at stake here if people like CA or not. Although, I AM encouraging others to try CA out, just as any other person would tell his friends about his interests or a cool thing that he found.

I never said you couldn't post in here, nor did I require you to ask for permission to post here (don't need your smartass comment). I've simply begged you to go try it out, so your posts wouldn't be based on speculation and a few videos. In fact, I'll give you a link to the latest build combinedarms.myfreeforum.org :: [File Updates].

My point is, if you still refuse to even try it, then your participation in this discussion wouldn't have any grounds, therefore why continue it at all? If you do try it, and STILL hold your opinion, then THAT is a whole different story.

[CAS_117]

Look Canuck I appreciate it but I don't think its going to help. Same rules apply in design as everywhere else: you can't control what people do, so don't try.

[CanuckCommander]

Look Canuck I appreciate it but I don't think its going to help. Same rules apply in design as everywhere else: you can't control what people do, so don't try.

Help what? Help who? You? If so, I dont' think I intended to help you at all. I'm not here to help anything or anyone other than myself, to be honest. I'm spreading the word because it's about something that I like, just like a PR player would try to spread PR to his friends. Also, it is because so I'd have more people to play with. Like I said before, I'm just a player with none or little stakes.

[CAS_117]

Well I meant you. But publicity is publicity as far as I'm concerned so thanks everyone in this thread.

[crazy11]

Guys please try the mod before you say that this will not work in PR, I am not saying you have to but it will help credit you if you do.

And there will be no more complaining about other members discussing their opinions.

[CallMeSnowflake]

Since when are we "pouncing" on people who show no interest? I've only told people to try the mod before making conclusions on how "fun" or "balance" people think it is. Actually, people have NOT only said they are disinterested. In fact, they've used words like "unrealistic, "unbalanced" or "no skill," which are in no way neutral words, tones or points of views.

I mean does this sound like "I am not interested, but it sure looks cool?"


Sounds more like a premature conclusion to me...


CAS, one of the most diplomatic persons, would not snap at someone who's "JUST" saying they don't want to play the mod.

Apparently people read between the lines, and interpret that as a counter attack or defensive post?

CAS understood my point, but you did not, Canuck... You'll note that I said "people who pounced" and not "everyone involved in this thread who liked the mod." As CAS noticed, I was not making a sweeping statement; I was clearly indicating that people who were behaving immaturely and aggressively were behaving inappropriately.

I don't recall associating your name with either immature or aggressive behavior, so there is no cause for you to take offense. Please understand this before assuming that you were the target of my post. I was in no way addressing you, I was addressing the people who were showing poor form. As far as I recall, you were not.

In short, "I wasn't talking to or about you, so don't get offended"

I hope that's clearer for you

[CAS_117]

OK E drama aside, we are doing a test tomorrow. All you ppl who support the mod should show up and well... support the mod. Everybody else come anyways 4 lulz.

Info will be in the schedule section ok?

combinedarms.myfreeforum.org :: Index

[Hitman.2.5]

I prefer the true combined arms approach that the PR dev team are taking, where compromises are made to enhance gameplay & teamwork.

hardly any jet maps?

[Nemus]

OK one final post.

But this time i let someone else speak for me.

Let's face it, there are just too many flares for the missiles we have. The missiles are performing poorly, especially in rear aspect shots.

The problem is that the chances of locking on the actual jet with 20 flares in the air is equal to 1/x no. of countermeasures.

Guys the aircraft have too many flares right now if anything.

You know what I'm just gonna set it to 1 flare/second.

@CAS do you recognize these quotes? Yes they are all yours.
From this post:
combinedarms.myfreeforum.org :: [Countermeasures] Lower flare ROF?

But as you can see the majority of your community reacts and wants unlimited flares/sec
You want to give them a challenge but they want X-Wings.

Anyway ... good luck tomorrow man

[Alex6714]

Yeah solutions are in the pipework, making the effect last long and pretty but the heat only a slight bit to decrease the effectiveness. Depends how it turns out otherwise something else will be thought of.

Im all for deadly missiles when the aircraft are also so.