More RPGs?

[Eddie Baker]

The RPG is not a sniper rifle. Nor does it even have stabilizing fins.

Incorrect





Too large to inlink:

http://www.trapperindustries.com/rpg/rp ... n+tube.jpg

[Demonic]

I don't like this idea, the insurgents already have a wide variety of tools that are effective in battling NATO Armour and Vehicles in this game and it works out great if you actually know how to use it correctly.

Having too much RPG's can effect game-play and over-power the insurgents side. With the combination of mines and IED's. Vehicles already have to be very careful. Each cache that spawns has one RPG, one PKM and a bipod AK-47 thats extremly accurate.

In Real-life the insurgents don't have a dozen people walking around with RPG's. AK-47's are cheap but RPG's and it's ammo are not as cheap. For AT rockets that are cheap but in real-life they are not effective against NATO armor. I keep hearing articles and stories of APC's and Tanks taking multiple sometimes 9-10 RPG hits and can still operate like nothing happened. In PR it takes a couple hits to get it damaged. Maybe even destroy it if you hit the right spots.

Mines in real-life are the real threat to armor. As they are in PR. The Insurgents are already set regarding anti-armor. No need to over-power them.

[Rudd]

Mines in real-life are the real threat to armor. As they are in PR. The Insurgents are already set regarding anti-armor. No need to over-power them.

Yeah, first thing I do on a map as INS is spawn in with a whole squad of sappers and mine all the roads likley to be used by the enemy (leaving 1 road or more open for friendly use) Works like a charm against those APC rushes, especially if the whole squad sets upa VBIED (i.e. lots of ieds in the sameplace, so that no matter what at least one person in the squad will survive and blow the IED)

[AnRK]

I can only speculate, but with the RPG getting the proper AP round modelled somepoint soon (as far as I recall Rhino didn't even notice it wasn't in game already ) I can see the RPG been split into 2 "weapons" one loaded with anti tank and the other with anti inf.

If that's not the plan then I don't see why there shouldn't be 2 different loadouts anyway, I'm sure Eddie can validate whether this is true or not, but I seem to remember reading in a few places that RPGs are pretty commonly used as anti inf weapons currently. Plus that'd reduce the duality of the RPG we have at the moment, that has the choice of nailing an APC or taking out a full squad given the 2 chances....

[Demonic]

I can only speculate, but with the RPG getting the proper AP round modelled somepoint soon (as far as I recall Rhino didn't even notice it wasn't in game already ) I can see the RPG been split into 2 "weapons" one loaded with anti tank and the other with anti inf.

If that's not the plan then I don't see why there shouldn't be 2 different loadouts anyway, I'm sure Eddie can validate whether this is true or not, but I seem to remember reading in a few places that RPGs are pretty commonly used as anti inf weapons currently. Plus that'd reduce the duality of the RPG we have at the moment, that has the choice of nailing an APC or taking out a full squad given the 2 chances....

As far as I am concerned, the RPG wasn't designed as a anti-infantry weapon. It's a anti-armor weapon. It's design is dedicated to trying to take out armor. Gernade launchers are for infantry but there is no way the Russians would have made the RPG a anti-infantry weapon. Not something that big.

In the game you could of course use the RPG already for anti-infantry purposes but I very much doubt that the taliban or insurgents would waste RPG ammo attempting to take out infantry when they got armor support they got to worry about.

In PR if somebody wasted RPG ammo trying to take out a infantry squad when there is IFV's running around. I would slap the hell out of him. When you pickup the RPG you are picking it up for one purpose and that's to assist your team in taking out the enemy armor.

[Eddie Baker]

AnRK, you are correct.

[quote=""Lester W. Grau, US Army Foreign Military Studies Office"]The Mujahideen used the RPG antitank grenades against both vehicles and personnel. The antitank round has a lethal bursting radius of some four meters and can kill with blast and shrapnel.

The spetsnaz found that the RPG-7 was ideal for taking out Mujahideen firing positions dug into mountain slopes. They would aim the RPG-7 to hit above and behind the firing position, showering the firing position with shrapnel and pieces of rock.[/quote]
RPG-7

[quote="Demonic""]As far as I am concerned, the RPG wasn't designed as a anti-infantry weapon. It's a anti-armor weapon. It's design is dedicated to trying to take out armor. Gernade launchers are for infantry but there is no way the Russians would have made the RPG a anti-infantry weapon. Not something that big.[/quote]

The OG-7 high-explosive pre-formed fragmentation round for the RPG-7.



There are similar sized and even larger weapons than the RPG-7 and its copies that are also equipped with rounds for both anti-armor and anti-personnel use.

M67 90mm Recoilless Rifle
Mk-153 SMAW Rocket Launcher
Carl Gustav 84mm M2/M3 Recoilless Rifles
PF-98 120mm Rocket Launcher

And that is far from a comprehensive list.

[DankE_SPB]

Gernade launchers are for infantry but there is no way the Russians would have made the RPG a anti-infantry weapon. Not something that big.

you're not quite right here, at first it was designed as AT("P"- protivotankovyy), but then a lot of new projectiles were made, launch tube also passed some modifications
PG-7V- basic shaped charge


PG-7VL-larger calibre, improved AP capability


PG-7VR- tandem shaped charge, improved AP capability, can penetrate ERA


ОG-7V- anti-personnel fragmentation round, nickname "pencil"


TBG-7V- thermobaric round, good for anti-personnel and fortifications



there are also some new systems, i.e. new RPGs, RPO flamethrower series, RShG


you damn ninja, Eddie

They would aim the RPG-7 to hit above and behind the firing position, showering the firing position with shrapnel and pieces of rock.

i heard another trick with common RPG round, at least chechens used it, they tied trotil brick to it, so it was ideal for causing landslip

[Demonic]

That doesn't make sense, why develope a anti-personal rocket for the RPG when it's huge and designed for AT purposes when you got the gernade launcher that fits right on your gun. Having to tug around a AK-47 + a RPG with anti-personal gernade would be a lot harder than just equiping a gernade launcher which is lighter and more portable.

[DankE_SPB]

grenades for GP-25

# VOG-25 specifications:
* Weight: 250 g (0.55 lb)
* Warhead: 48 g of A-IX-1 explosive.
# VOG-25P specifications:
* Weight: 278 g (0.61 lb)
* Warhead: 37 g of TNT.

compare it to

PG-7V Single-stage HEAT 2.6 kg (5.7 lb)

or RPO

That doesn't make sense, why develope a anti-personal rocket for the RPG

at least, because there are thousands of them everywhere in each unit, its an easy and cheap way to expand abilities of forces, and, as i said before, new systems also developed and delivered to army

[Eddie Baker]

That doesn't make sense, why develope a anti-personal rocket for the RPG when it's huge and designed for AT purposes when you got the gernade launcher that fits right on your gun. Having to tug around a AK-47 + a RPG with anti-personal gernade would be a lot harder than just equiping a gernade launcher which is lighter and more portable.

It's grenade.

The weapon is designed to launch rockets. It's only the ammunition that was designed for anti-tank purposes. It makes perfect sense to increase the capabilities of a battle-proven squad/section level weapon so ammunition load-out can be varied with METT, and you're not carrying dead weight.

As for carrying around both an AK and an RPG: in old Soviet Motor Rifle section TO&E, the RPG gunner only had a pistol in addition to the launcher. His A-gunner carried a rifle. In the VDV (airborne / air assault forces) the RPG gunner might get an AKS-74U/AKR. Not sure if this has changed or not in the Russian forces.

An HE/HEDP round from a 40mm low velocity spin-stabilized grenade launcher, stand-alone or under-barrel, does not give you the the casualty radius of an HEDP / HE-frag rocket.

[Demonic]

The russians have GL addons in there military which is the exact same thing as this idea except perhaps the RPG would be more precise. The part I don't get is why develope a AP gernade for the RPG to give the RPG Soldiers extra options on the battlefield when those options on the battlefield are already available through the GL.

IMO I would rather equip more AT ammo for the exact purpose the RPG was designed for. Leave the anti-infantry gernading to the forces equiped with the GL.

[Eddie Baker]

The russians have GL addons in there military which is the exact same thing as this idea except perhaps the RPG would be more precise. The part I don't get is why develope a AP gernade for the RPG to give the RPG Soldiers extra options on the battlefield when those options on the battlefield are already available through the GL.

IMO I would rather equip more AT ammo for the exact purpose the RPG was designed for. Leave the anti-infantry gernading to the forces equiped with the GL.

See post before yours.

[Demonic]

See post before yours.

Sorry, you posted that after I hit the quote button. I am still confused as to why somebody would want to carry a big heavy gun like the RPG just to take down infantry when the GL equiped on a AK-74 is a far better answer for anti-infantry purposes. As the GL does the same trick except the gernader has a assault rifle to defend himself with and use in combat. While the RPG soldier has only so much ammo room as those RPG ammo are pretty big. Why waste ammo carrying space on AP rockets when you can have full AT capabilties and leave the anti-infantry gernading to the GL equiped soldiers. That was my question.

However that question isn't important so no need to answer it. Just keep on with the topic.

[DankE_SPB]

In old Soviet Motor Rifle section TO&E, the RPG gunner only had a pistol in addition to the launcher. His A-gunner carried a rifle. In the VDV (airborne / air assault forces) the RPG gunner might get an AKS-74U/AKR. Not sure if this has changed or not in the Russian forces.

according to this(sorry, on russian) MechInf company in A-stan 1980-1985

RPG gunners get AKS-74U

but here VDV company on BMD, 1969-1980

RPG gunners get PM(pistolet Makarova(Makarov's Pistol))

[FuzzySquirrel]

yea 4 or 5 can really mean a difference.

Yea. It would. in the fact that now it's fine. With 4 or 5 it'd be wtfomgroflpwnd...

[AnRK]

Sorry, you posted that after I hit the quote button. I am still confused as to why somebody would want to carry a big heavy gun like the RPG just to take down infantry when the GL equiped on a AK-74 is a far better answer for anti-infantry purposes. As the GL does the same trick except the gernader has a assault rifle to defend himself with and use in combat. While the RPG soldier has only so much ammo room as those RPG ammo are pretty big. Why waste ammo carrying space on AP rockets when you can have full AT capabilties and leave the anti-infantry gernading to the GL equiped soldiers. That was my question.

However that question isn't important so no need to answer it. Just keep on with the topic.

Because it makes the weapon multi purpose, and multi purpose means that logistically it's better off because you don't have to have several systems being carried around for different uses, just different kinds of ammo, so in effect that's much LESS for a military to transport. Secondly a military has to spend a whole hell of alot less if one already pretty cheap to manufacture weapon system provides many uses rather then spending money on several.

It's not about being overkill, using something as potentially powerful as the RPG to take out one guy in a window, it's more used for large groups of infantry and anti-emplacement uses, something which a UGL isn't really capable of and like Eddie said other typically anti armour weapons are also used for.

Anyway it's very much on topic to discuss that cos it directly relates to how many RPGs should be in game.

[Eddie Baker]

according to this(sorry, on russian) MechInf company in A-stan 1980-1985

RPG gunners get AKS-74U

but here VDV company on BMD, 1969-1980

RPG gunners get PM(pistolet Makarova(Makarov's Pistol))

Interesting. My sources (US Army FM 100-63 Infantry Based Opposing Force) lists PM w/ RPG-7 or RPG-16 for Motor Rifle or VDV squad, respectively, and another source (US Army FM 100-60 Armor and Mechanized Infantry Based Opposing Force) confirms that, and also lists RPG-16 w/ AKSU for the BMD mounted VDV squad.

[TheLean]

Im just wondering why the insurgents with AK´s are carrying around three RPG on their back, did the insurgents have ammobags in earlier versions?

On topic: The game feels pretty balanced they way it is now, on the other hand you rarely kill any vehicles with the rpg since they return for repairs after a few hits if they are not noobs. But when you do kill them it feels great so the difficulty of achieving that is very satisfying.

Since a lot of people are complaining that rpg´s are underpowered, cant we make it so that the rpg actually penetrates the skin of an apc or humwee and kill anyone that is in the way of the jet beam? (im sure you are familiar of how an rpg melts through armor otherwise just google it) This could be done by coding the rpg to penetrate the armor as bullets penetrate glass but still add an explosion on the outside of the apc so it looks good and remove the explosion of the rpg when it is inside the vehicle so it only kills anyone that is in the way of the warhead. (ok, very difficult to code probably but somebody that knows coding can probably come up with a better way to solve this, if possible)

This way it would still require three or more hits do destroy the apc but there is also the chance of killing the driver, gunner or anyone riding in the back.

[JohnnyTheIED]

Interesting. My sources (US Army FM 100-63 Infantry Based Opposing Force) lists PM w/ RPG-7 or RPG-16 for Motor Rifle or VDV squad, respectively, and another source (US Army FM 100-60 Armor and Mechanized Infantry Based Opposing Force) confirms that, and also lists RPG-16 w/ AKSU for the BMD mounted VDV squad.

RPG-16 is the one that folds in half right? Or in 2 pieces. I think tho they must allow choice between the 2. The extra foot must be considered for those who want a sturdy, ready to operate launcher.

AKMS or the Krinkov is definitly what crewmen go out with. Maybe now some of the new ak74u models, bullpup. Forgot the name.

[R.J.Travis]

As far as I am concerned, the RPG wasn't designed as a anti-infantry weapon. It's a anti-armor weapon. It's design is dedicated to trying to take out armor. Gernade launchers are for infantry but there is no way the Russians would have made the RPG a anti-infantry weapon. Not something that big.

In the game you could of course use the RPG already for anti-infantry purposes but I very much doubt that the taliban or insurgents would waste RPG ammo attempting to take out infantry when they got armor support they got to worry about.

In PR if somebody wasted RPG ammo trying to take out a infantry squad when there is IFV's running around. I would slap the hell out of him. When you pickup the RPG you are picking it up for one purpose and that's to assist your team in taking out the enemy armor.

I Agree with your post here and have been saying the same thing since the idea was first posted back in 0.75 Asking for more Rpg's and Rpg Ammo It would make having armor more pointless then it already is It takes a very high trained armor crew right now to even survive a round and be helpful.