Support Weapons

=RvE=FuSiOn · Post by **=RvE=FuSiOn** » 2006-05-22 09:08

Hi guys id first like to say i love your mod and what im about to say is not to provoke or invite a flame fest.....
The support weaponry in Pr have little or no deviation and seem to out gun everyother gun in the game... The accuracy on all support weapons is far too high. The low muzzle flashes also rarely ever tell you where the fire is comming from. Ussually when i pick up a support weapon im able to out SNIPE any sniper on the map by just firing 10bullets in that direction, knowing that im going to make contact.
I think in all honesty many people feel this but not many have said anything about it... And whats really sad about this is 90% of the time people play support for this very reason.
To me this is an exploit. Reason why?
Every few shots the weapon fires it comes back to its original position and its like a circle of bullets flying at you more accurate than anything out there with 10times the force..
I know support weaponry is meant to suppress enemies in reality, but unfortunately this weapon has turned most people in to mini rambos running around with the ability to take out anything and everything....

All other guns are great and have a realistic touch except for the ones mentioned above...

Now i know it would be foolish to ask that you guys fix this, but i (hope) that this is atleast looked in to in the future patches...

Ps. love the work keep it up and thanks again for PR

Skullening.Chris · Post by **Skullening.Chris** » 2006-05-22 09:12

It's been brought up a million times. Not saying this to be rude (like some people would), just that it's a major concern that's been debated for quite a while, you're not alone. To me, it's the all-purpose heavy-assault-sniper-CQB-rifle. Now if only it fired AT rockets

=RvE=FuSiOn · Post by **=RvE=FuSiOn** » 2006-05-22 09:14

amen lol i was just thinking that too lol

Doedel · Post by **Doedel** » 2006-05-22 10:22

I think the problem can be resolved by making it so it is impossible to fire accurately while standing or crouching so that it is only usable when prone. When prone and deployed those guns should rock.. afterall they're meant to simply spew larger amounts of lead at targets than assault rifles. If you've played Desert Combat for BF42 you'd know what I mean.. in DC, the SAW and RPK rocked when lying down and was very good in defense and with good firing lanes but was unusable when moving, standing or crouching. A BIT more kickback when firing prone might help as well.

Tolots · Post by **Tolots** » 2006-05-22 10:39

I made some shooting Tests and watched the impact pictures the Guns made.
There is (Excluded the Sniper Rifles) less to no change in the impact pictures if you stay, kneel, crouch or use the iron sight mode as long you not moving while shoot. The Support gun fire 4 Bullets in the Time other Guns fire 3 and it have a really close imact no matter if you stay or crouch as long you not moving while fire. To my Suprise the Mp5 was the 2. most accurate non sniper Gun outmatching the Specops and Assault Rifles in recoil for the first 3 - 5 bullets

Nick666 · Post by **Nick666** » 2006-05-22 12:09

I can just tell something about the german MG3, every Squad has its heavy gunner with an MG3 with them and this gun is extreme devastating.
Extreme rate of fire, lesser recoil then the assault G3 (because it has more weight), and with it 7.62mm very powerful. You even can put a scope on the MG3 and go "sniping" with this little beast!!

BUT, you can't shoot this gun effective whilst standing because you can't aim and the force of the heavy rate of fire would pitch you through the air

So, you have to go prone and put it on its bipod to fire effective (the scoped version is even installed on a tripod).

In PR this should be implemented, machineguns have to rock but with limitations like "you can't fire while not proning" and the go-prone action including intsalling the MG on its bipod should take some amount of time!!
so, you have a limitation in mobility and this gun is not godlike.

MrD · Post by **MrD** » 2006-05-22 12:57

I'm glad accuracy is up on support weapons. They are really effective in real life nowadays. Take the tripod mount for the british army GPMG for example, it uses a rocker device that makes the gun have some deviation which is preferable to sticking 12-20 rounds through the same guy. Maybe cutting down on zoom range would be good (who wants to sight down an LSW when firing too much? it's disorientating) plus stamina and maybe speed needs to make the guy less mobile due to the weight and cumbersome properties of lugging one around.

But reduce the accuracy? hell, no! You have to learn to use smoke, flanking tactics, grenades, arty. No more rambo's running across open ground and not expecting to get slaughtered by an LSW !!!!!!

Tolots · Post by **Tolots** » 2006-05-22 13:08

MrD
I think nobody disagree that LMGs do and shall rock. Its the unrealistic accuracy while standing and even kneel that should rebalanced. Try that in RL and watch how you kill the air and the guys standing next to you but sparing the target in front

hop_ic · Post by **hop_ic** » 2006-05-22 16:03

You might see me throwing a fit on servers just because of the support kitters. I think the resolution to this problem is to make them walk and sprint slower and to make their weapon have a slower set up. Make their weapon less accurate... I mean for god sakes it can take out a sniper. hehe...

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-22 16:29

The accuracy does not change. Ever. Unless you actually damage the weapon or block the barrel, its accuracy will not change. The recoil may change depending on the position the shooter is in. If he happens to be standing up, the chances are he'll have a less chance of controlling his weapon. When laying down support the gun both on the ground and his shoulder, the gun will bounce back less after each successive shot.

As I posted in the other thread concerning this issue, the RPK and QBB-95 are exactly the same as the AK-47 and QBZ-95 respectively. The only differences are that they have longer barrels. Currently though, for some bizzare reason, the assault rifles carry with them a lower rate of fire and a much greater recoil than their support counter parts.

Support weapons are supposed to be accurate, that's the whole point. They can fire a lot of bullets over a long distance quickly. Decrease their accuracy is unrealistic, they should be more accurate than the assault rifles and currently nobody complains about their accuracy. You sit down firing semi automatic a long range target with one of those and you will hit it. Try it with the RPK and you would have an even better chance, something that's reflected on in the game. Where is it written that a support weapon should not be able to take out a sniper rifle? Since when is this realistic? By this logic, should we lower the knife's accuracy because I can take snipers out with it? Contary to popular belief, the support weapon isn't necessarily always used to for suppressive fire. It's meant to give support from a distance, as the support class specialises in nothing else other than shooting, that's what it should be used for. Stop complaining.

luizinhuu · Post by **luizinhuu** » 2006-05-22 16:38

YEA i agree
make the standing and crouching accuracy pure **** and fix the insta-prone (maybe a extra-delay proning for support kit because of the tripod). done. support kit won't be exploit no more!

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-22 16:49

Read my post, please.

Malik wrote:The accuracy does not change. Ever. Unless you actually damage the weapon or block the barrel, its accuracy will not change. The recoil may change depending on the position the shooter is in. If he happens to be standing up, the chances are he'll have a less chance of controlling his weapon. When laying down support the gun both on the ground and his shoulder, the gun will bounce back less after each successive shot.

As I posted in the other thread concerning this issue, the RPK and QBB-95 are exactly the same as the AK-47 and QBZ-95 respectively. The only differences are that they have longer barrels. Currently though, for some bizzare reason, the assault rifles carry with them a lower rate of fire and a much greater recoil than their support counter parts.

Support weapons are supposed to be accurate, that's the whole point. They can fire a lot of bullets over a long distance quickly. Decrease their accuracy is unrealistic, they should be more accurate than the assault rifles and currently nobody complains about their accuracy. You sit down firing semi automatic a long range target with one of those and you will hit it. Try it with the RPK and you would have an even better chance, something that's reflected on in the game. Where is it written that a support weapon should not be able to take out a sniper rifle? Since when is this realistic? By this logic, should we lower the knife's accuracy because I can take snipers out with it? Contary to popular belief, the support weapon isn't necessarily always used to for suppressive fire. It's meant to give support from a distance, as the support class specialises in nothing else other than shooting, that's what it should be used for. Stop complaining.

USM-ST3.Spyder · Post by **USM-ST3.Spyder** » 2006-05-22 19:01

no the support guns are realistic, they are less accurate than assault rifles. What you need to so is shoot the person with the support weapon and he will die, rendering him incapable for shoot u lol

=RvE=FuSiOn · Post by **=RvE=FuSiOn** » 2006-05-22 19:17

Well obviously some people didnt read my post...
i said i didnt want to invite a flame fest... and Malik u brought it so im going to finish it.
Apparently you think u are right but real world military folk who have played PR and tried the support weaponry say that it is not realistic at all...
Yes u are supposed to be taking out targets at range and any person can do so without any skill by just picking up a support weapon....
Pardon me have u ever used a weapon in real life? You seem to talk alot and obviously dont know how heavy these things are and how unstable they can be in full auto...

Anyway before any further posts, dont say im complaining, and when you make a comment please make sure you are 21 and above....

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-22 19:56

You don't understand the, the RPK is the AK-47 just with more bullets. It's not that much heavier. The M249 indeed is much larger than an assault rifle, but not the RPK. I've fired shotguns and air rifles, nothing in the league of an automatic weapon and I'm aware how heavy they are, but I've never seen a soldier struggle to fire an AK-47, and the same applies to the RPK. It's the same, but a bit longer and with more rounds.

I'm not flaming at all, I just think it's silly that people are asking for the accuracy of these weapons to decrease. It's a known fact that a weapon with a longer barrel is going to be more accurate, and this is true with the RPK. Making it 'less accurate' is physically impossible without cutting the barrel or putting dirt down it or something or even firing lower calibre rounds. The deviation should be exactly the same as the AK-47 no matter which way you're pointing it and no matter how you're moving. The recoil though, that changes and that's what people should be asking for.

=RvE=FuSiOn · Post by **=RvE=FuSiOn** » 2006-05-22 20:10

thats exactly what i said if u read my first post...
there is no deviation and recoil on these guns, rather no substantial recoil...
ive tested the support weapons and its ridiculous how it can out gun anything in any position (Standing/Crouch/Prone) Im not saying kill the accuracy, but atleast there needs to be some sort of recoil that doesnt allow a person to fire a whole clip nonstop. Mind you this goes for all support weaponry. I can understand 5-10 round bursts for a support gun to a certain area... but a whole clip and 80% accuracy? thats just ridiculous..

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-05-22 20:21

The accuracy is fine. The recoil effect in different stances/movement need to be turned up, not just for LMGs, but for everything that isn't a pistol. And for that matter, the weapons need to recoil upwards, not every which way they feel like.

=RvE=FuSiOn · Post by **=RvE=FuSiOn** » 2006-05-22 21:03

YUP exactly lol!
the LMG's move sideways lol

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2006-05-22 21:06

Yea...

Like i said in the other thread, the accuracy of LMGs need to be as much as an m16 or AK74 (respectively) when prone. These guns ARE super accurate in real life.

Or, how about the developers just make them...realistic? That would fulfil the aforementioned request.

AznLB · Post by **AznLB** » 2006-05-22 21:15

This same debate has been going on since 0.2, and nothing has ever came of it. The DEVs don't seem to want to fix it, so we should just let the issuie die.

The Support guns are perfectly fine right now (accuracy-wise and damage-wise), it's the ability to shoot them while standing, and the insta-prone that is causing the problem.