Support Weapons

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-22 21:18

I still can't work out why the AK-101, AK-47 and RPK all have different rates of fire. They should all be 600rnds/min. And yes, the sideways recoil is odd to say the least. The RPK is supposed to be a super version of the AK-47 with better accuracy and more bullets, but currently it has a higher rate of fire, does more damage and has less accuracy.

Grey_Ghost · Post by **Grey_Ghost** » 2006-05-22 21:25

My only problem with Support guns would be the insta prone spam they encourage.

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-05-22 21:28

Insat prone FTL.... It ruins the game. Whether you're using a SAW or a sniper rifle, instant accuracy mid air completely ruins all the immertion this game is about. #1 issue in PR and BF2 as a whole, IMO.

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-05-22 21:29

Malik wrote:I still can't work out why the AK-101, AK-47 and RPK all have different rates of fire. They should all be 600rnds/min. And yes, the sideways recoil is odd to say the least. The RPK is supposed to be a super version of the AK-47 with better accuracy and more bullets, but currently it has a higher rate of fire, does more damage and has less accuracy.

The RPK is jsut as accurate if you use short bursts.... try it on a stationary target-its just as good. The only thing that makes it less accurate after the first bullet is that it doesn't have single shot.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-22 21:37

Shouldn't the RPK have semi automatic firing modes as well? Last time I checked the AK-47 did so I think the RPK should too.

As I said, the RPK should be more accurate, probably more powerful and slower at firing (or the 101 and 47 should be faster, they're all meant to be 600rpm). LSWs aren't meant to be balanced and fair, they're meant to kick *** and that's what they should do. Currently they're only good for scaring people. I love spraying a whole magazine at the enemy's position knowing how it must sound to hear all those bullets ricocheting over the hill, but I rarely pick up any kills with it, unless I see a Little Bird that is.

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2006-05-22 22:12

A few things to note -

First off, i'm going to say this. I have no experience firing fully automatic weapons. I have no Military background. I am a strictly a text-book Rambo and nothing else.

However, The RPK is not simply an AK with bipods and a drum mag. Thats the mistake the Germans made when they tried to make a G36 based SAW on the cheap. The RPK features a significantly longer and heavier barrel, a stiffened receiver, and a redesigned stock. The current model, the RPK-74 weighs in at a heafty 5kg, compared with the AK-74 which comes in a 3.3kg. Now, it's still much lighter than an FN Minimi (M249 for you yanquis), but that 1.7kg of mass, with the added weight of a 45 mag (75 round drums were developed for the RPK-74 but never issued) makes the weapon much easier to fire from the hip.

What i'm trying to say is that the idea that small calibre support weapons like the minimi and RPK have enough mass to make them easily useable from the hip in both standing and crouched positions. That is one of the factors required for a SAW. Now, aiming from the sholder in these positions is a different matter (or at least so i'm told) due to the mass it can be difficult to aim the weapon properly using the iron sights and keep it on the target, I'm sure anyone who has used a long arm and has tried to keep it aimed at a fixed point unsupported will agree with me. After a while you start "drawing circles" around where you want to point. Now try it with 7 kilo LMG, and thats before you put the 100 round belt bag on.

My solution - make the weapons accurate and stable while prone and while firing from the hip, but make the sights "wander" when the player tries to fire using the irons from the sholder. That means the weapons can do what they're supposed to WTFOMGPWN fired from the hip close in and out to a fair range (although due to no cross hairs this will be limited - which is good, it discorages simply stading up and blazing away) and at any range, provided it's set up on it's bi-pods.

=RvE=FuSiOn · Post by **=RvE=FuSiOn** » 2006-05-22 23:27

i think some of you guys need to see this page...
http://www.enemyforces.com/firearms/rpk74.htm

See what it says under "practical rate of fire"
Its not how it is in Prmm with guys running around unloading clips and hitting everything...

MrD · Post by **MrD** » 2006-05-23 00:07

"practical rate of fire" probably refers to the amount of rounds a trained/skilled user can fire with changing magazines in that minute.

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-05-23 00:31

The 5.45-mm round of the RPK-74 has a considerably higher muzzle velocity than the 7.62-mm round of the RPK. However, both weapons probably have the same maximum range (2,500 meters) and effective range (800 meters). Unlike the RPK, the RPK-74 is compatible with the front firing ports of the BMP.
So the RPK should have a lower damage right.

Post by **Katarn** » 2006-05-23 00:32

I think that the 7.62mm round has more muzzle energy, even with the reduced velocity. The 7.62mm round weighs more than twice that of the 5.45, so considerably more stopping power.

Energy:

5.45: 1316 joules, 3.25g
7.62: 1991 joules, 7.2g

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-05-23 00:35

so that's a yes or a no?

Post by **Katarn** » 2006-05-23 00:38

RPK should do considerably more damage.

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-05-23 00:49

Oh okay will it then
http://www.break.com/movies/goodword.html

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2006-05-23 09:16

'[R-DEV wrote:Katarn']RPK should do considerably more damage.

Without getting into a nasty argument about the nastyness (and very near illegality) of the balistic properties of the 5.45 soviet, I would say this:

Firstly, the 7.62x39 round has a much more pronounced parabolic trajectory past 300m, and due to its low velocity has great difficulty penetrating modern body armour. Whilst it will have more "stopping power" and will cause bigger entry wounds, the 5.45 was not known to the mujehadeen in Afganistan as the "poison bullet" for no good reason. It tumbling and fragmentation effects are even more pronouced that those of it's western counterpart, the 5.56x45mm NATO. Indeed, because of the way it was designed with a soft nose to encourage it to tumble in it's target there were questions as to whether it was compatible with the laws laid down by the Geneiva conventions. Married to it's much flatter trajectory and higher velocity it, unlike its predecessor, can punch through body armour with much greater ease.

So what would I say about adding these in game? Make the RPK so it does more damage to unarmoured targets and less to those with body armour and give the '74 reduced, but constant damage in comparision with the RPK.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-23 15:08

Hold on... BF2 and PRMM currently have the old RPK (the one firing 7.62 rounds) the AK-101 (firing the 5.56 rounds) and the AK-47 (again, 7.62). The RPK-74 and AK-74 aren't even in it. :S

=RvE=FuSiOn · Post by **=RvE=FuSiOn** » 2006-05-23 15:41

uhm u are wrong...
its the rpk 74 lmg in bf2 i think u need to check again...

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-23 15:57

You're right, I checked the BF2 site. Silly me.

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2006-05-23 18:48

Malik wrote:Shouldn't the RPK have semi automatic firing modes as well? Last time I checked the AK-47 did so I think the RPK should too.

As I said, the RPK should be more accurate, probably more powerful and slower at firing (or the 101 and 47 should be faster, they're all meant to be 600rpm). LSWs aren't meant to be balanced and fair, they're meant to kick *** and that's what they should do. Currently they're only good for scaring people. I love spraying a whole magazine at the enemy's position knowing how it must sound to hear all those bullets ricocheting over the hill, but I rarely pick up any kills with it, unless I see a Little Bird that is.

+1

I like you man. You think like a real mil sim gamer.