Weapons of PR

[the.ultimate.maverick]

No, British SF should not use that weapon

[Bob_Marley]

maverick']No, British SF should not use that weapon

And why not (other than its an AR-15 armash*te copy made in canada)? I was under the impression that the C8A1 was the weapon used by British special forces.

[mav3r1c]

I like em all.

[the.ultimate.maverick]

And why not (other than its an AR-15 armash*te copy made in canada)? I was under the impression that the C8A1 was the weapon used by British special forces.

There is no 'one weapon' used by an SF unit.

It depends entirely upon circumstance. If storming a building, I would not carry an AW-50 - and at long range I'm not going to use something like a pistol.

The weapon given to the SF unit should be either changeable (if unlocks are figured out) or a weapon that works over a long range. Otherwise the SF is not realistic and is underpowered.

Also nigh on every SF soldier does not have a standard weapon, they use any weapon they wish

[Pence]

And remember the minimi needs to be the para version, not the full sized one.

The L108A1 is the British FN Minimi, the L110A1 is the British Minimi Para.

The L85A2 should have a 4x scope (probubly the SUSAT, but it has been stated that this will be replaced in the near future, and the frount runner is the American ACOG) and the AG36 UBGL.

The AG36 UGL is already used on L85A2 assault rifles by British forces.

And the SUSAT being replaced? Where did you hear this, its the perfect sight for the L85A2, its standard (Like American Ironsights), its rugged, it was platformed for the SA80 series and the UK military has no reason to change it as a SUSAT is easy-fitting around the eye.

[Bob_Marley]

And the SUSAT being replaced? Where did you hear this, its the perfect sight for the L85A2, its standard (Like American Ironsights), its rugged, it was platformed for the SA80 series and the UK military has no reason to change it as a SUSAT is easy-fitting around the eye.

It's part of the MOD's FIST upgrade plan. It is also stated in Jane's Defence.

UK assault rifle to receive lighter, improved sight
Andrew White Jane's Land Forces Reporter
London

The UK armed forces' L85A2 (SA80A2) assault rifle is to undergo another transformation as the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) starts negotiations to replace the L9A1 weapon sight.

The UK MoD's Future Infantry Soldier Technology (FIST) programme office wants an "improved and lighter" system to replace the United Scientific Instruments L9A1 Sight Unit Small Arms Trilux (SUSAT), currently in use with the SA80A2.

Industry sources said the UK MoD favours the Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight (ACOG) TA31RCO 4 x 32 sight, produced by US aiming systems specialist Trijicon. The deal could have a potential value of up to GBP200 million (USD357.8 million).

In 2000, the SUSAT was exempt from arms specialist Heckler & Koch's (H&K's) GBP92 million revamp of the SA80.

The UK MoD contracted H&K to modify some 200,000 SA80 assault rifles and L86 Light Support weapons, with improvements including a new hammer, cocking handle, gas plug and firing pin. Monthly deliveries to the UK MoD of 4,000 SA80A2s started in December 2001 and the contract is due for completion 2006.

Trijicon's Military Division manager, Shaun Rategan, said: "We cannot comment on quantities or type. The FIST programme has tested and evaluated our ACOG and conveyed an interest in future business."

ACOG is currently favoured by the US Special Operations Command, including Green Berets, US Navy sea, air and land (SEAL) commandos and US Army Rangers as well as the UK's special forces. Designed for use with the M16 series of assault rifles, it is seen as a very robust sight despite being 137 g lighter than the 417 g SUSAT.

Other features include dual illustrated reticle, enhanced adjuster caps and chevron reticle and crosshair. A deal could also include the purchase of simple scissor-action mounts.

Since H&K's improvement programme, the SA80A2 has had "isolated difficulties", according to a UK National Audit Office report in December 2003, although post-operational reports indicated a general acceptance that the SA80A2 is effective and reliable.

In 2005, Trijicon won a USD660 million contract to provide Rifle Combat Optics (RCO), a modified version of the ACOG, for the US Marine Corps' M16 assault rifles.

The deal initially comprised 104,000 scopes, worth USD610 each, with an additional option for the US government to buy a maximum of 800,000 RCO scopes over the five-year contract period.

^from Janes website



^ that's off the offical British army website. Note the ACOG where the SUSAT should be.

There is no 'one weapon' used by an SF unit.

It depends entirely upon circumstance. If storming a building, I would not carry an AW-50 - and at long range I'm not going to use something like a pistol.

The weapon given to the SF unit should be either changeable (if unlocks are figured out) or a weapon that works over a long range. Otherwise the SF is not realistic and is underpowered.

Also nigh on every SF soldier does not have a standard weapon, they use any weapon they wish

I did actually mean that should be the weapon that the "special forces" kit uses in the game, as it is the closest weapon in the British arsenal to things like the M4A1, AKS-74U, etc. I apologise for any confusuion I may have caused with my previous posts.

And anyway, given that the C8 has a longer barrel than it's American counter part, and if you really wanted long range effectiveness you could slot an ECLAN or ACOG sight on there I dont see the problem, though I imagine we'll simply see a slightly differently moddled M4 with an RDS and lower deviation, if the C8A1 is used.

[the.ultimate.maverick]

I think you need to clear this post up again...I do understand/agree with your point that the C8 SFW is being actively used by British Specialist Units, including the SBS, SFSG and SAS. But at the same time the C7 is still in broad SF usage, especially for long range work, as its longer barrel (5in longer than C8 ) and fixed buttstock fit it to this role perfectly. So either a C8SFW or C7 fitted with an Eclan sight, this would be a good introduction to realism but would undoubtedly carry huge balance issues.

However, the C8, in standard config, is not generally used by SF units. The standard 14.5" barrel does not offer the accuracy required by an elite unit. This is shown with the C8A2 being in service in Denmark, and on trials elsewhere. The longer 15.8" rifle is used which is also fitted with a modified internal suppressor.

I suppose, after thinking about it more a C8SFW (L119A1 Brit. Des.) would probably be a good addition, with the C7 as an optional unlock, as it that would offer two weapons with the same base and similar model, but with distinctively different roles.

[Bob_Marley]

maverick']I think you need to clear this post up again...I do understand/agree with your point that the C8 SFW is being actively used by British Specialist Units, including the SBS, SFSG and SAS. But at the same time the C7 is still in broad SF usage, especially for long range work, as its longer barrel (5in longer than C8 ) and fixed buttstock fit it to this role perfectly. So either a C8SFW or C7 fitted with an Eclan sight, this would be a good introduction to realism but would undoubtedly carry huge balance issues.

However, the C8, in standard config, is not generally used by SF units. The standard 14.5" barrel does not offer the accuracy required by an elite unit. This is shown with the C8A2 being in service in Denmark, and on trials elsewhere. The longer 15.8" rifle is used which is also fitted with a modified internal suppressor.

I suppose, after thinking about it more a C8SFW (L119A1 Brit. Des.) would probably be a good addition, with the C7 as an optional unlock, as it that would offer two weapons with the same base and similar model, but with distinctively different roles.

Now that sounds like a plan!

[A.J.Sawyer]

Oh, i really like the blade sight in the SUSAT, thats what reminded me I was using a weapon from the SA-80 Family

[G.Drew]

I think the layout for the kits should be:
Spec Ops: dont know
Sniper: http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/pw/pw_sr.htm (either one or both)
Assault: L85A2 with grenade attachment (dont know it will have the SUSAT, possibly)
Support: optional: LSW and minimi (para)
Engineer: dont know (same as spec ops)
Medic: L85A2 (without launcher, possibly with SUSAT)
Anti-tank: dont know
Needs posts for AT, Engineer and Spes ops (plz not a shotgun!)

[the.ultimate.maverick]

Spec Ops is above....

Engineer same as Spec Ops?!!

Just do what is normal, if AT is heavy, give a 9mm. If light, give a rifle.
Engineers should get a rifle

[G.Drew]

oh yeah, forgot the AT had a pistol
does anyone want the engineer to have a stinger and the assault or another kit to have a light AT weapon?

[the.ultimate.maverick]

Wait to see if DEVs can use unlocks....

[Eddie Baker]

Uh . . . all of you guys have seen the Media Gallery showing work-in-progress models of the L85A2, L119A1, C7A1, L9A1 and GPMG, right?

[the.ultimate.maverick]

I hadn't !

*hangs head in shame*

But also thinks its good we came to same conclusion...!

[G.Drew]

still, peoples opinion

[solipsism]

I would like nicer m16 model. I hate the bf2 one. Also i think it shoots unrealistically.

[Kakashi]

i voted GPMG.

[Cerberus]

I would like nicer m16 model

An accurately modeled M16A4 would be nice.

[M8/M320]

L85A2, but I hope it is the one with the H&K inprovements!