Suggestion: Persistent Mines

JuniperM40 · Post by **JuniperM40** » 2006-05-20 02:00

Hello Again PRMM team,

Kudos on making vehicles "not explode" if you move them to another location and leave them be for a few minutes. This lets Squads move around vehicles to where they need them, and not have to worry about "resetting the self-destruct mechanism" they left in the vehicle. =)

("Ok, we're at the shopping centre. Honey, did you remember to set the 2 minute time-bomb in the car?") << Something I don't think I'd ever say. =)

However, upon death of your player, any "placed" things, like Mines, Claymores, etc also seem to "disappear" around +15 seconds after respawn of the player who placed them.

Hence, would it be possible to make these objects "Persistent"?

i.e:

__________________________________________

- I am an ENG.

- I cleverly place 2 x AT Mines the entrance area to one of my flags to prevent a Tank from rolling in here and having his way with me.

- I wait, and wait; knowing full well, that if I go off into "combat", i'll likely die at some point, and my mines will disappear and have to be "placed" back in their proper location from my new ammo stores. hence, I wait, and I wait. =)

- Tank comes along - Blasts me with a HEAT.

- I die, respawn, and "poof", my AT mines are... Gone....!

- Tank rolls in. Takes flag. Egads.

__________________________________________

So, what happened to my AT mines I placed only a few minutes ago?

I did not respawn and use "two new mines" (which, is what I fully expect should actually be the case w/PRMM - i.e. only 2 "active" mines at any time per player - Much like ammo packs, or claymores when I'm alive).

Hence, Is it possible to eliminate that behaviour of AT mines to 'disappear' if I have to respawn? I think it would be better that I can place only 2 mines; and that they should persist *forever* unless the following conditions are met:

1. I place another mine somewhere else (after re-arming myself) - The first mine I originally laid disappears

2. I disarm the mine w/my wrench, and move it elsewhere.

3. I die and change Classes, and respawn no longer an ENG. (do *not* confuse this with picking up a "kit" on the playing field - if I swap kits, my mines should stay)

Summary: Mines and Caymoures should last beyond multiple respawns of my player as long as I remain an ENG.

Ideas/suggestions/possiblities?

- JM40.

AznLB · Post by **AznLB** » 2006-05-20 02:05

I like the notions of mines not dissapearing.

I would also like to see engineers being able to place as many mines as possible, so you could place 2 mines, rearm, and place more; thus making a minefield. I think this would make the engineer class more useful, and require him to work with tankers and vehicles to clear a path for assets to move in.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-20 09:51

Just imagine the mess on 64 player Xtraction. 32 MEC engineers placing 2 mines every 30 seconds. That's 128 mines per minute. Before long the map would be a complete minefield and it'd be physically impossible to win it without sacrificing that many Humvees.

JuniperM40 · Post by **JuniperM40** » 2006-05-20 14:36

Malik wrote:Just imagine the mess on 64 player Xtraction. 32 MEC engineers placing 2 mines every 30 seconds. That's 128 mines per minute. Before long the map would be a complete minefield and it'd be physically impossible to win it without sacrificing that many Humvees.

Hence, each ENG can only have 2 "active" mines.

What I'm more concerned with, is that they "last" beyond death/respawn of your player.

- JM40.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » 2006-05-20 14:43

I think you may be on to something. Having your ordinance disappear because you died and knowing that if they didnt disappear, you would have successfully warded off 50% of an assault on a flag is annoying to say the least. Annoying that you have to lay them then bugger off and hide for 5/10 minutes before the en forces get a nasty surprise.

weidel · Post by **weidel** » 2006-05-20 16:28

I think it should be possible....I noticed yesterday that some ammo bags I dropped as Assault actually survived through multiple respawns by me, and I was able to load on a new grenade now and then.

It must be possible to do the same thing with mines, and I support the idea.

Solitas · Post by **Solitas** » 2006-05-20 16:36

Like it, simple and makes sense.
Though I think engie's should be able to lay more mines, not too many possibly just increase it to 4 or 5.

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-05-20 22:05

I agree, 4 mines of each type would allow you to make a much better obstacle and if those mines persisted after death you wouldn't have to camp in a corner for fear a sniper will take out your hard work. After you respawn and start dropping more mines, then the first you dropped start to disappear.

Post by **Ghostrider** » 2006-05-22 22:12

'[R-DEV wrote:Gaz']I think you may be on to something.

Indeed. Thanks for your good suggestion JM40.

-Ghostrider

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-05-22 22:39

If you did this, Then please, for the love of God, make claymores have a detonator! If you don't, people will jsut start spamming away as soon as they spaw, completely confident that they will rack up kills. I also hate it when a vehcile drives by and detonates my claymores, only to be followed by a full squad of infantry that could have been killed by it if I had the choice to detonate it.

vitaebello · Post by **vitaebello** » 2006-05-23 05:57

I like that idea... how about implementing it this way... Just as we have tickets for lives....have tickets for ammunition. Each team has a limited amount of mines...bullets etc. (Even Tanks and Helos.) Whenever an engineer places a mine..the tickets go down..Maybe starting with as little as 100.
Also...i should be able to fire a weapon (especially the tank's canon) and detonate the mine to get rid of them...if i see them.
With tickets for supplies...a team that manages them better should win.

bigbossmatt · Post by **bigbossmatt** » 2006-05-24 14:10

JuniperM40 wrote:Hello Again PRMM team,

Hence, would it be possible to make these objects "Persistent"?

Why not make it so that any mine/claymore stays there forever, but the engineer who puts one there then dies cannot place anymore?

I wanted to add the idea of mines being able to blow up men too. And if possible, only when their feet actually touch it.

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-24 14:17

Landmines....

JellyBelly · Post by **JellyBelly** » 2006-05-24 14:48

Well for one,can you imagine a map full of persistent mines? Im pretty sure that would add some strain on the server's.

JuniperM40 · Post by **JuniperM40** » 2006-05-24 15:42

JellyBelly wrote:Well for one,can you imagine a map full of persistent mines? Im pretty sure that would add some strain on the server's.

It's that way right now.... as long as you're alive.

As an ENG, I currently "hold" 2 mines, but I can have up to 5 "active" on the Map, while I am alive. I've used them all before simultaneously - to build a nice minefield (Surprise...!) in a defensive position.

Played Mashtuur city night last night as MEC - Ringed the powerplant w/5 mines. Didn't die during the round - the mines were there for a good 20 minutes. No additional strain on the server that I could tell....

All that I ask is that the mines last beyong death/respawn (like they would IRL). =). I'm not advocating 50 mines per player, nor am I advcating that they not "blow up" if triggered. They would operate the same as now, with the same 5 "active" mine limit per Engy.

- JM40.

JellyBelly · Post by **JellyBelly** » 2006-05-24 15:50

Ok, let me just make sure im understanding what were talking about here. Mines which stay, wether the player who creates them die's or not. That are only ever removed if driven over, or removed by an engineer.

If thats true, imagine about 10 engineers, all placing 5 mines every life, dieing 10 times throughout a round. Thats alot of mines on a map at once. Give or take a few destroyed or removed. Now, that would casue some lag. Lag which the less fortunate of us may not be able to cope with.

JuniperM40 · Post by **JuniperM40** » 2006-05-25 05:53

JellyBelly wrote:If thats true, imagine about 10 engineers, all placing 5 mines every life, dieing 10 times throughout a round. Thats alot of mines on a map at once.

Close! However, there's some red herrings here - i.e. there seems to be this recurring concern about respawning that never existed in the original suggestion. (and not just from yourself, from a few replies/posters to this thread). So, Allow me to paraphrase here:

"If thats true, imagine about 10 engineers, all placing 5 mines"

Yes. If your team was made up of 10 Engineers - and each of them place 5 mines each, that would give a total of 50 mines. Agreed. In fact, you can do this in Vanilla BF2 right now, as well as PRMM.

"all placing 5 mines every life, dieing 10 times throughout a round. Thats alot of mines on a map at once."

How many times he respawns and drops more mines is irrelevant. Why you ask? Only 5 mines per eng can ever be active at any given time - Not "every life". If he attempts to drop his 6th mine (even if his first 5 are all still active from his previous life), the original 1st one (from hsi previous life) disappears.

Ergo:

If your team had 10 Engineers, each of which laid 5 mines, there would be a total of 50 mines on the map. Yes. I would agree with this. In fact, you can do this right now in vBF2 as well as PRMM. As well, any attempt to add another mine, would result in the very first mine disappearing - hence remaining a constant maximum value of 50 mines on the map assuming 10 Engineers.

Makes more sense?

In other words, whether an ENG dies or not, if he lays 5 mines, they are there forever. Until:

1. driven over
2. removed by him or another eng
3. attempts to lay his 6th mine, the 1st mine disappears (even if its from a previous life)

BTW - point #3 - (lay mine 6 & mine 1 disappears) is exactly they way the BF2 engine handles it right now. Experiment with it sometime in local player mode - you'll see what I mean by "disappearing". All that I am requesting, is that this behaviour persist across respawn.

- JM40.

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-05-25 08:08

Well said, JM40.

Gran · Post by **Gran** » 2006-05-25 19:09

Sounds like an excellent idea if it can be done in the engine.

Dethleffs · Post by **Dethleffs** » 2006-05-26 00:16

cant see why it shouldnt work tbh... great idea! I hate it when i have to go back in the fray the rework my defensive line!

regards,

Deth