Changed ROE for pilots

[R.J.Travis]

Stay on topic go to the thread about the 2 pilot kits if you wish to go down that roll.

[Lange]

About the pilots currently being unarmed I disagree. While the full extent of why their pistols where taken away I donot fully understand but there has to be a solution to this.

A guy earlier in this thread said it was nuts to not have pilots armed since a battlefield has tons of enemy fire and I agree. Its not realistic at all to not give the pilot a pistol because it is standard US military proceedure to issue all pilots a sidearm in hostile areas. Its proceedure of many other Coalation armies as well to issue combat pilots some sort of defense weapon. We can compromise to give the pistol back.

1.Firstly I understand people would use it to TK and mess around on runways, but let admins deal with that. If people are doing that **** kick or ban, and I think admins do a good job of that already. Taking it out just because of a behavioral issue is a solveable issue, and I don't think its really needed to remove the pistol for peoples stupidity because it can be solved with stricter admin enforcement, and people being aware and issue kick votes, plus the team commander is in the base and if he sees it im sure he can spread the word to take action against rule breaking pilots.

2.Secondly to compromise the issues with I say give the pilot less clips so he has to conserve. From reading this thread someone else also mentioned that it encouraged stealth fighting with pilots and this helps the problem. In older versions when the pilot did have a pistol im not sure of the clip count but it should be close to this:

1 clip plus 2 extra

This is also realistic too as the pilots donot carry very many clips just the one loaded in their cockpit holder or holster, plus a few additional. With so few clips it would only encourage personal defense and not any sort of offensive fighting for the most part.

Also to apply to this whole "use the pilot for intel" even further there should be limits to when the pilot can fire as well. If he is surrounded by a group of soldiers, to be captured if he fires he will likely risk death, and capture would be better off. However he has a right to fire if fired upon or against single soldiers trying to capture him with the knife. Im not sure how we could get the game to adjust to these scenarios but probably it could be worked out somehow, with ideas people has.

Now I know scenarios with personal defense aren't as likely now so the pistol removal being temporary I understand, but once a better system is worked out for cockpit bailing out and extraction and those sort of things the pistol should come back into play.

Also if we do end up with 2 pilot kits (chopper and jet) this whole pistol idea im refering to the jet pilot because obviously a chopper pilot would have some type of rifle SMG of carbine and such.

Please let me know what you think of my reasoning.

By the way yes RJ, Travis LOVE THE IDEA about extra gameplay scenarios with pilots!

[CodeRedFox]

Real Life: Pilot does everything in his power to make it back to base or to be rescued. Might have to kill someone.

PR : Walking back to base takes to long might as well die and respawn, I'll take a few guys down and have them kill me for I don't have a respawn penalty

Here is the main reason, if we find another way to remove the PR mentality we have now and replace it with someway to act more like real life we will look into it. But its got to work and be fair and not huge long respawn that can be fixed by logging out and back in. And most of all its got to be idiot proof.

You can ***** and moan all you guys want. So far it works great especially seeing as its a small portion of the players on the server.

[McBumLuv]

CRF, I don't mind finding ways to encourage pilot's to survive, asserting the "value" of a pilot's life to the military. But we can't have that without realistic pilot kits, because otherwise we'd get part of the wanted gameplay, but the majority of it would be flawed, and not make sense, or not work.

So, something rewarding pilots to have returned to base, along with realistic equipment to encourage realistic tactics, and Bingo! I'd much prefer a balance of rewarding players surviving and making it back and a small punishment for those that didn't, rather than an absolutely horrid punishment akin to those that have ruined the civilian kit.

BTW, Fuzzy, if you want to continue the discussion on different and realistic pilot kits, but it here: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... erentiated

[CodeRedFox]

My post is more of less for the "Its not realistic" crowds. Point is that it works really well right now and until we can find a way to make it work better its stays. But making it better needs to fall into a few rules.

Tard proof or close to it
Engine limitations
Reward/Punish system

All this is allot of work for a small number of the players in a game. So its not end of the line for the pilot just not a huge priority.

[McBumLuv]

Well, so long as there are ways to harm players it will never be tard proof. But good admins take care of that. It just means tards get more creative, hoping in helicopters and crushing you, ramming, etc...

Otherwise, giving pilots weapons isn't going to be bad. It was bad previously because in 0.8 the pistol was a much better CQC weapon than any other due to the rapid draw time/aim time. As to paradrops, while they were quite rare, they were only feasible because the pilot wasn't differentiated and could HALO off of helicopters with those very same weapons that could dispose of all the enemies easily.

I'm sure if you tried implementing it, it wouldn't be bad either. And it only really works "well" right now because the entire aspect of having to extract downed pilots is largely missing because helicopter pilots so rarely get the chance to survive the first hit, or to crash and get out, and flying often requires that they stay above the point in which they can safely parashoot (which is unrealistic in itself). So, if you want to ignore that added experience in game, then yes it does work well. But if you hope to get more rescue missions it would have to be changed.

[Lange]

Well, so long as there are ways to harm players it will never be tard proof. But good admins take care of that. It just means tards get more creative, hoping in helicopters and crushing you, ramming, etc...

Otherwise, giving pilots weapons isn't going to be bad. It was bad previously because in 0.8 the pistol was a much better CQC weapon than any other due to the rapid draw time/aim time. As to paradrops, while they were quite rare, they were only feasible because the pilot wasn't differentiated and could HALO off of helicopters with those very same weapons that could dispose of all the enemies easily.

I'm sure if you tried implementing it, it wouldn't be bad either. And it only really works "well" right now because the entire aspect of having to extract downed pilots is largely missing because helicopter pilots so rarely get the chance to survive the first hit, or to crash and get out, and flying often requires that they stay above the point in which they can safely parashoot (which is unrealistic in itself). So, if you want to ignore that added experience in game, then yes it does work well. But if you hope to get more rescue missions it would have to be changed.

Yeah exactly my thinking man. I should have been more specific but I meant it as if we can A. make it so bailing out happens more often which it doesn't so weapons aren't feasible at the moment. Then B. just find a method to work like rescue missions and your 2 sided arguement where give them pistols back isn't a bad idea. Or taking them away is fine. I like that too.

Also I didn't realize the pistol gameplay issues like in CQB so that also makes sense.

[h3killa]

Just give the pilot a knife. A pilot always carries a knife in his boot and HALO drops would be possiable but very rare because the knife is not a ranged weapon the person would have to knife someone to get a ranged weapon.

[McBumLuv]

Pistols were really only bad in 0.8, when everything else was nerfed and you could aim the pistol and fire like 10 shots before they even had their rifle irons up. And if they didn't, they'd have sprayed everything but you because of the horrible deviation. Thankfully, that's no longer the case...

[R.J.Travis]

.,. please stop jacking the thread CRF & McLuvn

I wanted the idea I put in to be in game by 1.1 or 1.4 when the low priority. becomes the only priority left to do

To the rest of you McLuvn has a nice thread to talk about giving the Pilot his weapons back.

Link: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... happy.html

If you guy's can't get back on topic I'll have to get it closed

[McBumLuv]

Well, I'd like to see Pilots treated differently and given reason to bail out (And survive and make it back to base and so on...), and I wouldn't mind giving the enemy tickets perhaps for knifing (AKA "Capturing") enemy pilots, but I don't think they should be treated as civilians, because they aren't armed.

[CodeRedFox]

Ah I thought this thread got merged with the other 50 threads about the pilot kit

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Pointless IMO and not just the obvious abuse that come with it like spying and running into enemy fire or messing around at someone's main.

Who would honestly go out there and try to risk their lives or their whole squad's lives for 1 lonely pilot who if killed, could respawn back at main in 30 seconds and get another pilot kit? The time it takes for you to get there he could have already respawned back at main and that time could be better spent trying to win the game.

He's 1 ticket. It's not like he's a wrecked APC or truck you are trying to retrieve that could actually come in handy.

[OldGoat5]

Pointless IMO and not just the obvious abuse that come with it like spying and running into enemy fire or messing around at someone's main.

Who would honestly go out there and try to risk their lives or their whole squad's lives for 1 lonely pilot who if killed, could respawn back at main in 30 seconds and get another pilot kit? The time it takes for you to get there he could have already respawned back at main and that time could be better spent trying to win the game.

He's 1 ticket. It's not like he's a wrecked APC or truck you are trying to retrieve that could actually come in handy.

But they are talking about making the respawn time if killed to 250 and/or having the kit stay there for the rest of the round.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

But they are talking about making the respawn time if killed to 250 and/or having the kit stay there for the rest of the round.

Then no one would even jump out of the aircraft in the first place. I haven't seen a pilot jump out of his aircraft in about 5 patches. Most experienced pilots would rather go down with their aircraft then jump out because they can instantly respawn back at main, request a kit, and take another aircraft.

There is little reason to jump out of an aircraft right now. This would be even more reason not to. And then you would have the problem of the tards jumping out over enemy lines knowing they won't be killed.

Mongolian_dude;931912']I think perhaps an increased ticket penalty for a pilot being killed while inside the aircraft. Otherwise, whats the incentive to bail out and go through all the escape and evasion in the first place?

Most people just try make it back to the pad/runway when they are on fire and its almost always certain failure. They dont have the disincentive to stay with the aircraft that an RL pilot does the loss of life (loss of tickets / heafty Increase Spawn time).


...mongol...

Why add even more ticket penalties? We already have enough ticket penalties already. That is just unnecessarily punishing the team for 1 man's actions.