Insurgency Will someone admit civvis are wrong

[{UK}Suzeran]

Civvis are just plain wrong they are teh hardest kit to use least rewarding (often) lots of talk about broken code from DEVS regarding civi kills muddying the waters (yes look it up)
so lets just admit civvy is broken.

Yes ppl will say but on this server or that server bla bla bla. Personally im a averagly mature player i like to play the game as its ment ot be enjoyed, if i see a civi with my squad i wll say dont shoot civi, and i like how draw distance is a factor in deciding which targets to engage as from a distance models look similar.

But i often shoot civis by accident, and i know of very experienced players who just shioot them to teach the insurgency players a lesson (220sec spawn) this tactic works the more civis u shoot the lees u see try it. I prefer to shoot warning shots at civis to make them go away this works also. If they are too cocky someone WILL kill them.

Now here is the root of the problem insurgency is one of the most dynamic games i have ever played , (karbala needs to go) but civvi is so unrewarding slow to respawn and underused i feel this aspect of representation of civillian collaborators in PR is being missed id liek it if some how manyy many more civvis could be on the map, er maybe ppl spawn as civvi or something.

What i want to know is there any plans to fix civvies???? DEVS?? whats going on

in NEW PATCH civi spawn is now 120 secs with no regular kill death penalties added, except TK etc

[alexaus]

this makes no sense >? what are u on about

[Tofurkeymeister]

Tip of advice: don't complain without offering a solution, lest you get torn to shreds . Yes, the civilian kit it "special", but complaining about it won't help. Plus, this idea might be a resuggestion.

Just trying to help you out...

[amazing_retard]

Ya everyone agrees that the CIVI system needs to be re hauled. Mate don't worry about it, the devs are working on it Lets just hold back on this topic until .86 is released. Maybe that might solve some problems?

[redman0123]

Yeah civies need some work :/
I don't get why the spawn timer has to be so high... I mean really whats the purpose of that, seriously?
If that ONE thing was fixed, we would see more civilians! That means more ROPES setting up AMBUSHES on rooftops, and more MEDICS to help un-nerf the Insurgent class which is incredibly underpowered right now (I agree it shouldn't be as "powerful" as a conventional faction like the US however).

The taliban is a much better fighting force because of A) rally points and B) usable medic class
and all the insurgents really have are access to mass IEDs and mines. Thats it. Thats all. See a US soldier? Too bad hes not in range of your mass explosives. Survive the firefight? Too bad you bleed to death anyways cause there is no civies around.

[Wilkinson]

Yah not sure whats going on here

[Threedroogs]

i cant wait for the .86 collaborator changes. i love that kit.

[TheLean]

Well, the post could be more articulate but I do agree with the OP that collaborators are a very unrewarding class. 120 or 240 seconds spawn time is not good for the immersion in the game. If i die as a collaborator I always alt tab and do some surfing, which brings me out of the immersion in the game. It is also bad for squad teamwork to miss all the squad talk. But staring at that screen for 120 or 240 seconds is too boring to handle. Why is it 240 seconds every other time you get shot btw, isnt it supposed to be 120second wait time?

Conclusion: spawn time of 2 or 4 minutes is bad for immersion and teamwork.

Solution: Make the collaborator model more distinct to avoid accidental shootings, Lower the spawn time to 40 seconds and give them some crappy weapon, like a concealed pistol that they can use under penalty condition, like when they heal insurgents now.

[M.Warren]

I have my own issues with the Civilian Collaborator system, and I also have a potentially sound solution to the issue as well. For now, we should refrain from driving the point home. That is unless you simply wish to discuss it.

I suggest patiently waiting for v0.86 to come around. Even if it may or may not provide a solution, there's little else that can be done about it as all the "v0.86 updates and change logs" are hinting an upcoming build at some point. So the most that can be accomplished is venting as their manpower is being consumed.

This point in time is something I call "The Dead Zone".

[[MPN]Slouch2]

If you're worried about having long respawn times as a civvy, play as something else. Or do what I do, and take a toilet break or go make a coffee or something.

I find the Civvy is a very useful role, despite what OP thinks. You can call out targets, provide the much needed medic role the Insurgents need... Personally, I really enjoy it.

[Rudd]

But i often shoot civis by accident, and i know of very experienced players who just shioot them to teach the insurgency players a lesson (220sec spawn) this tactic works the more civis u shoot the lees u see try it. I prefer to shoot warning shots at civis to make them go away this works also. If they are too cocky someone WILL kill them.

I only shoot them by accident in CQB, otherwise there isn't really an excuse unless you're covering the city in HEAT shells.

about them being cocky, in Afghanistan the Apache pilots see dudes shove their gunz under a rock and run out waving at them, so....welcome to the real world I guess. (source, 'Apache' by Ed Macy)

Civi punishes should come back, 3tickets per kill. I want the old days when we'd go "shit civilians in there, hold fire!" and we wouldn't fire even if hundreds of RPGs were coming from the location. That was more balanced, and more fun imo.

Read the changelog regarding civlians, at least those changes are good.

[Snazz]

The collaborator may be a very useful kit in the right hands but personally I won't touch an insurgent kit that has a 2min respawn time, just isn't worth it.

The devs obviously don't want much more people to use it either due to the additional problems that creates (human shields, ticket exploits etc). So unless it's actually seen as a problem to them that so few players use the kit at the moment, it'll probably stay as it is.

The devs might have some new ideas up their sleeve, who knows.

[redman0123]

Yeah I agree there shouldnt be many collaborators in game, but right now as it is... no one uses it. Most of the time the entire insurgent team doesnt have a collaborater. Sure someone might go as the broken class for a few minutes but thats usually it.

[Vege]

More you heal more you loose from you spawn time? Hardcoded?

[RedSparrow]

I like playing as insurgents, I find it amusing at the least. I do feel sorry for the bluefor squads that are on mumble with me when I scream and run away from them... Eh heh. Lets say I tend to get a little too immersed in the game sometimes.

I do get annoyed when people shoot me (Even as conventional forces ), especially when they're in range to see that I'm not armed at all.

I also like how if an insurgent is annoying me I can throw a rock at him and then ask them to apologise before I heal them.. xD

[M.Warren]

If you never played as a Civilian at v0.75 or before you simply don't understand.

See, there are many problems with Project Reality. There is this belief that that changing game play constitutes justifiable change and positive evolution in game play. Thus, creating a "sense" that anything new is better than the last. If one were to use common sense, you'd realize that if something was done right the first time, it would be a good idea to leave it be and call it "Mission Accomplished".

The problem with this is that every time that it's thought that we're making a step forward, we usually end up finding that we have to backtrack and make two steps back. Kind of like how weapon deviation was changed in v0.7 from v0.6 and it made an uproar amongst the infantrymen enthusiasts. The problem is that many things take place the same way till now it's just the details aren't major enough to justify changing (in their eyes). That's why things were changed quickly, as enough people complained about it in number. Now imagine if you were a aircraft enthusiast; you'd probably wonder why you're still banging your head on the wall even to this day.

How could I explain this? Project Reality at times has a way of acting a lot like Microsoft. You're confident and comfortable with Windows XP after a years worth of interacting with it. Then all of a sudden, "ZOMG GUYS NEW BUILD!!!"; welcome to Project Reality Vista.

Don't believe me? Here's some of the things we're missing out on:

Something you wont see on Al Basrah ever again.
The Secret of Al Basrah
The Secret of Kashan Desert
British Saxon Engineer Truck
The lost Helmand Province
Guess what these are. LOLOL
Mao Valley
Raid on Moskyie
<Note: After all, it was removed because of the fact that grass didn't render at long distance. Then again, we have new long-distance rendering grass don't we?>

Just goes to show some of the history PR has been through and a lot that could be re-done if it was visited again. I figured I should post this just in case you had forgotten your roots. Or you are too new to Project Reality to know what you've missed out on and wonder why all the veterans are annoyed.

I'm done with what I have to say for now. If you wish to push yourself further into memories and sorrow, come join me. And if you wish to immerse yourself in even more painfully joyful memories, be my guest.

[Rudd]

They could still try the Civi with the current spawn time, but the old style punishments imo. That would balance it out at least.

There has got to be something that says "IT IS NOT OK TO KILL CIVILIANS, SO STOP KILLING THEM RATHER THAN KILLING THEM AND THEN GOING TO THE LOO FOR 5MINS WHEN YOU DIE!"

British Saxon Engineer Truck

that was removed due to RL stuff rather than game related stuff

[M.Warren]

True, but that thing was sick. I loved having my squad with it. Had smoke too!

[Rudd]

true that

Was so sad to see it go from the game, but I bet the lads IRL were waving it away thanking their various deities it was gone.

[MadTommy]

Warren you're still a newbie in my eyes.

What are you on about, 'all the veterans are annoyed'. Speak for yourself please, not others.

Anyway Win7 is the best OS since Window 3.1x.. so your argument has no founding.

We all have found memories of the 1st build we got hooked on.. doesn't mean they were better, personally my favourite is 0.32 but it doesn't mean its the best version, heaven forbid. (i'd probably hate it now)