Insurgency Will someone admit civvis are wrong

[M.Warren]

Ha! No big deal though. I'm sure many veterans are not as upset as I am. But then again, maybe those individuals like everything that's submitted into a build with no personal preference? I hope that veterans to PR do have some sort of complaint about PR, if not, then I question their judgment.

Anyways, the OP is still right in my eyes. An exceedingly high respawn time does not force players to use infantry kits correctly. There's something wrong when a kit is available to a team and no one really wants to use it.

Don't be fooled though. There might be 1 or 2 people that might say they feel that the Civilian Collaborator is properly structured in this thread. I can't agree with that. Especially when I've noted only 1 (or 2 if your lucky) on a team with 5 full squads. If a kit was available that is properly functioning should have at least 1 Civilian Collaborator per squad and people regularly utilizing it. That's another problem with PR; if a person uses the kit once, then it happens all the time. The kit is broken, period.

There even has been times where a Civilian Collaborator was in the immediate area of a killed insurgent. The killed insurgent saw the Civilian Collaborator nearby as it appears as a "Medic" icon when you're critically wounded. This then has a habit of stoking up a heated debate along the lines of:

Wounded Insurgent: Hey! Can you revive me please?
Civilian Collaborator: No.
Wounded Insurgent: Why not?! I'm right beside you!
Civilian Collaborator: I'm not going to revive you. That will flag me as being a hostile and they can kill me.
Wounded Insurgent: So what? Get me up!
Civilian Collaborator: Um... No.
Wounded Insurgent: WTF MAN!

It's really common sense people. The functionality is counter productive in multiple aspects. There isn't some mystical rule or guideline necessary to understand why players aren't interested to use this kit. It's one kit jumbled up together in what should be two different kits.

If you use the Civilian Collaborator kit, that's fine and dandy. I'm glad you can enjoy sitting around doing little the whole round. But for a majority of other players, I'm sure they couldn't be bothered in playing that role. You might as well go Commander at that point, at least you'll have access to Mortars and prove to be useful over time.

Anyways... I'll be posting several threads after the v0.86 build is eventually released. This isn't the time or place to go into details as it's pretty much wasted effort.

[PhiR]

my 2 cents:

- civvies should have a skin you can spot from afar. With the current draw distances it's IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish between civvies ans insurgents from afar. In real life you'd see if people were carrying AKs or RPGs at that distance when scoped.

- civvies spawn time: I can really understand the rationale for having a much bigger spawn time as a civilian because otherwise they'd just throw themselves under cars. But on the other hand it's really a pain to have to wait a minute or so...

Funny fact: I thought that the DEVs in their great wisdom had simply coded the restrainer as a knife model and so I tried to capture a civilian with an insurgent's kit knife. Boy was I wrong!

[hiberNative]

To me, civvies are valid targets to shoot if they are a threat. (Such as giving out field dressings, voulentary human shield for insurgents, throwing rocks on top of roofs for the lolz at BLUFOR soldiers, etc.) Things you really wouldn't expect a REAL civilian to do IRL. I mean, what the heck is a civilian doing amongst a firefight, if I was in that position IRL, I would be hiding in my home noy bunny hopping in between the firefight...

he's a collaborator. and you're not supposed to shoot people throwing rocks at you in a real scenario. but sure, it's easy to do in-game and just go basic rifleman when you die.

[Rudd]

- civvies should have a skin you can spot from afar. With the current draw distances it's IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish between civvies ans insurgents from afar. In real life you'd see if people were carrying AKs or RPGs at that distance when scoped.

yeah, Green shirt and red shoes FTW

I hated it back then, But I'd love it back now

[Zimmer]

+20 seconds spawntime for every guy in your squad if a guy in your squade kills a civi?

[Rangu]

+20 seconds spawntime for every guy in your squad if a guy in your squade kills a civi?

Will only work at LAN-parties, as you can slap the guy in the face.

[M.Warren]

+20 seconds spawntime for every guy in your squad if a guy in your squade kills a civi?

People still drive APC's, Tanks, Jeeps, Supply Trucks, Logistic Trucks and Helicopters blindly into enemy territory and are completely blown away. Each time someone has the ill-gotten mentality to do so, it costs the whole team tickets. Do they care? Of course not.

You cannot punish the team directly for someone else and their mistakes. The other part of the problem is that no one learns from the mistake. You figure after 20 times of driving trucks and such straight into the enemy, you'd have the sense to realize it has never worked.

That's the other part of Project Reality; as much as there are certain built-in effects that are supposed to prevent players from doing stupid things, but it takes a admin enforced server to bring it to what it's supposed to be.

This is an excerpt from the v0.85 manual:

If you shoot civilians, you will face several penalties:

1. After your next death you will respawn 120seconds later per civilian shot. (Stacks up to 5 minutes additional delay.)
2. You will not be able to request any limited kits for10 minutes.
3. Your score is reduced to 0 and the kill will not be listed on the scoreboard.
4. Your team loses 7 intelligence points.

Additionally if you kill 3 Civilians within a 10-15 minute time span from being reckless with your firearm you will be killed and "arrested" yourself for killing innocent non-combatants... Then again, when was the last time we've seen this happen? It's a game dynamic that actually took place in previous builds. At this point and time, you'd be lucky to get 2 of those 3 kills and you'd have to try pretty hard for that to take place.
<Note: At least that's assuming that this rule is still coded into the game anymore.>

I think that causes enough damage as is without starting trouble for your squad mates. Most people are topically unaware of the underlying gameplay dynamics surrounding the use of Civilian Collaborators. I can assure you that there's already enough at work to penalize the offender without causing more collateral damage to the team.

And here I am... Still explaining they shortcomings of the Civilian kit while I know better than to keep ranting. Argh!
:d uh:

[redman0123]

I remember those versions... but all of that aside: The collaborator is broken. It's broken, theres no way around it. It's broken. Not a matter of opinion, theres not enough people using the class in-game and its breaking insurgency now. The collaborator is F'ing BROKEN.

Because he is the ONLY support class (hmm... rope, epi pens, arty) for insurgents, the entire Insurgent faction is now broken. I like playing insurgent LESS than ever before because ITS NOT FUN BLEEDING TO DEATH ALL THE TIME, and you can never get the advantage using roof tops or be as mobile as the Blufor because insurgents are now stuck on ground level pretty much 100% of the time due to NO COLLABORATORS.

This is one of those few rare moments when gameplay probably should be taken into consideration over realism...

[Rudd]

Will only work at LAN-parties, as you can slap the guy in the face.

OMG we gotta do that at the next one!

First person to kill a civi has to be slapped by everyone in the squad, WITH A FISH!

[{UK}Suzeran]

Tip of advice: don't complain without offering a solution, lest you get torn to shreds . Yes, the civilian kit it "special", but complaining about it won't help. Plus, this idea might be a resuggestion.

Just trying to help you out...

buddy this is a discussion i want to know how other people feel as they are not often used and i think its a shame we dont have more non combatants running around makin trouble

[{UK}Suzeran]

Yeah civies need some work :/
I don't get why the spawn timer has to be so high... I mean really whats the purpose of that, seriously?
If that ONE thing was fixed, we would see more civilians! That means more ROPES setting up AMBUSHES on rooftops, and more MEDICS to help un-nerf the Insurgent class which is incredibly underpowered right now (I agree it shouldn't be as "powerful" as a conventional faction like the US however).

The taliban is a much better fighting force because of A) rally points and B) usable medic class
and all the insurgents really have are access to mass IEDs and mines. Thats it. Thats all. See a US soldier? Too bad hes not in range of your mass explosives. Survive the firefight? Too bad you bleed to death anyways cause there is no civies around..

This post is FLAGGED as NOOB! Taliban are an easier play due to there resemblance to bluefor combat. Insurgency is a different game Your life is worth much less and the MAD die respawn thing just represents, i feel, the scale of the insurgency with people everywhere joining in the fight, <<< this is the reason i believe more civis would make for such a better experience. Also mate the number of IEDs and mines u can plant is sick and if u plant alot and hide goodbye USA/UK convoys!

For now, we should refrain from driving the point home. That is unless you simply wish to discuss it[/I]
thats the idea M.warren.I suggest patiently waiting for v0.86 to come around. Even if it may or may not provide a solution, there's little else that can be done .

M.Warren this is a discussion, so feel free also have read all the change dev blog on 0.86 and see gameplay tweeks as stated at header of post :

No death kill penalties for civis flat 120sec spawn, except TKetc
only 2 caches at a time, drastic reduction of certain weapons accuracy, all cars trucks now off roadable without easy damage, cel leader kit now only worth 1 intel so u have bandages

If you're worried about having long respawn times as a civvy, play as something else. Or do what I do, and take a toilet break or go make a coffee or something.

I find the Civvy is a very useful role, despite what OP thinks. You can call out targets, provide the much needed medic role the Insurgents need... Personally, I really enjoy it.

[MPN]SLOUCH2 dude seriously im not a hater i just want more more non combatants in the insurgencies to add that feeling of civilian population infested with insurgents. Also why not write ure memoirs rather than go to the toilet if u play civi that much, perhaps take up knitting.

Civi punishes should come back, 3tickets per kill. I want the old days when we'd go "shit civilians in there, hold fire!" and we wouldn't fire even if hundreds of RPGs were coming from the location

Read the changelog regarding civlians, at least those changes are good

Dr2B_Rudd, i very much like the sound of that. See i feel that is an aspect thats missing. Also i have read and can read.

So unless it's actually seen as a problem to them that so few players use the kit at the moment, it'll probably stay as it is.

Snazz what man, thats bull people that like insurgency and i know some are Devs, know the score Cut out the dead wood my friend!

the broken class quote redman0123

I find it amusing at the least. I do feel sorry for the bluefor squads that are on mumble with me when I scream and run away from them...

redsparrow omg this is awesome man freaking awesome, civi taunts would make many a Bluefor see the red mist of IEDS

If you never played as a Civilian at v0.75 or before you simply don't understand.
How could I explain this? Project Reality at times has a way of acting a lot like Microsoft. You're confident and comfortable with Windows XP after a years worth of interacting with it. Then all of a sudden, "ZOMG GUYS NEW BUILD!!!"; welcome to Project Reality Vista.
Raid on Moskyie
<Note: After all, it was removed because of the fact that grass didn't render at long distance. Then again, we have new long-distance rendering grass don't we?>.

I'm done with what I have to say for now. If you wish to push yourself further into memories and sorrow, come epic quote jizzed in my pants over moskyie but seriously old timer all that matters is i came to this game! i liked this game! a new generation enters and in computer games terms that happens fast. Whilst some of ure screenies are cool. All in all appreciated u took long a look at the topic and said ure piece.

Wounded Insurgent: Hey! Can you revive me please?
Civilian Collaborator: No.
Wounded Insurgent: Why not?! I'm right beside you!
Civilian Collaborator: I'm not going to revive you. That will flag me as being a hostile and they can kill me.
Wounded Insurgent: So what? Get me up!
Civilian Collaborator: Um... No.
Wounded Insurgent: WTF MAN!

<<DAY IN THE LIFE OF WHIPPIN BOY CIVI

ok WHILST we may call them civvis they are collaborators, civilians and spys all the aspects of a non com to say a civi wudnt protect a gunman in real life isnt the issue. The scope of this kit is amazing which is why i ma so sad about it.

To summarise civi/coloab is broken broken, the gameplay that punishes a person for killin civis has GONE! There are not enough of them to impact the game due to mega spawn time and the entire insurg team constantly rellying on them as support class. In 0.86 build cell leaders will reemerge (now only 1 intel) so whilst no more stoopid bleed outs civis will be played less, RIP the colab/civi

Please can we work out a new role for colabs and civis that plays to their strengths , they are support and colaborators noncom and com l the rich prospects of civilian pop infiltrated with insurgents, needs a rehash!