0.86 Accuracy Reduction...

[Wicca]

Suppression fire does work, although i want "Ballistics" implemented too.

I usually never "snipe" targets, they are always within a hundred meters, or else its alot easier to avoid being spotted by them, and move in with nades and burst/Auto.

But with the AR on long ranges, aswell as the Grenadier it is alot easier.

If anything, i want PR to add more "terrain cover" like long ditches, small mounds, and long walls of dirt.

like the fields in Qwai, or the bare outskirts of North Village.

That would be infantry heaven

[Lone-Assassin]

I don't mind if it changes or not. I'll just get used to it.

So many times have I been running and an enemy has been running and we have both stopped when we see each other and lie down, he will fire as soon as he lies down and his bullets will just be pinging around or over me. I will just lie patiently for 5 or so seconds finish him with one or two shots.

[Lone-Assassin]

If anything, i want PR to add more "terrain cover" like long ditches, small mounds, and long walls of dirt.

like the fields in Qwai, or the bare outskirts of North Village.

That would be infantry heaven

This is so true aswell. However, compared to ArmA (which I got fed up of playing) PR is like cover heaven. I think Red Orchestra did cover well on alot of its maps, the player made ones mostly didn't do this very well though.

[Roulette]

IMO the main point of this deviation and waiting for it to settle is to encourage TACTICAL realism rather than PHYSICAL realism of the ballistics, etc.

With this settle time it makes two guy who use fire and maneuver tactics to cover each other and move, leapfrogging if you like, more likely to win over 2 guys who are running and gunning with no order.

It makes a defender more likely to win in a camping position over a guy who has run up to the defence position fresh, eager and trigger happy.

In real life this would also be the case.

BTW I created the video and I explain pretty well at the beginning that it's theoretical and based on MY OWN RESEARCH. I am just a player and have not had anything to do with the creation and development of PR. I made it pretty quickly and truth be told, i would rather the production qualities have been higher. But it seems to have helped more people than it has hindered and I that was the purpose.

Whether the deviation system is refined for the future, I hope that tactical realism will be the focus rather than physical realism as it's the easiest to replicate in a game with good results. Off topic slightly, the suppression effect is not physically realistic, but for it's tactical purpose, it's an excellent inlcusion into the mod.

So though the DEV's are striding for a realistic military shooter, there will enevitably have to be compromises made if physical realism and tactical realism cannot both be simultaneously achieved in a certain aspect of the game due to the engine the mod is based on.

[sickly]

Thought this thread from the dev journal archive might be informative:

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f316-2 ... tions.html

It explains the logic behind the deviation of different weapons during development of the latest version of PR (i.e. v0.85).

I have some issues with accuracy in PR but I haven't played enough to really be the best judge, so instead I'll just post an example of a recent round I played:

I manage to take up a reasonably hidden position overlooking a small bridge on desert map (meaning you have near perfect visibility; i.e. little vegetation and well-lit). As enemy players move towards the bridge from their not-so-well-hidden Rally Point, I place shots on them; It's pretty easy because they don't bother using their smoke grenades. Problem is, I don't always manage to get headshots, meaning that the moment they get hit they break into a sprint, frantically zig-zag across the bridge and duck for the nearest cover.

My problem is that even though they're suffering from 'suppression' effects (i.e. visual impairment), they've played the map so many times that they can navigate short distances by memory. The fact that they can sprint immediately after being hit is a pain because it allows them to take advantage of the BF2 engine's lack of character physics (i.e. no intertia/momentum) to move so instantly that hitting them accurately becomes quite difficult (not to mention headshots), thus allowing them to unrealistically run through fire--sometimes even after I hit the same player repeatedly, just not in the head.

I tried increasing my rate-of-fire (note that I was using scoped L85 set to single-shot) in order to just wear them down but then my accuracy dropped dramatically (I was standing--shooting through a window).

I'm not a bad shot and I felt very helpless to stop them--they seemed to basically ignore me.

There was another occasion where I managed to flank this pro that kept fragging my squad and would have made an easy kill in reality, but he was moving so fast (i.e. changing direction in micro-seconds) that I knew that even if I managed to get a hit, it wouldn't be a headshot (i.e. I would rather be sure to get a torso shot, rather than risk missing his head and have him turn around and frag me).

I didn't shoot at all and just guided my squad to him because previous experience showed me that 'suppression' effects are insufficient to prevent the target from counter-attacking (he'll have spurts of bad vision but he can still move like the wind). I knew that if I hit this guy, he'd just move evasively, figure out where I was (due to having played the map a million times), zig-zag sprint over and frag me.

I've also had circumstances where I managed to get in right behind someone, shoot them in the back (again fearing I would miss the head if he decided to move...instantly) and be shot in turn by either him if a "good" player or his buddy nearby who could zone in quickly because I had to shoot repeatedly, and of course had no fear of being fragged by me before he could get a shot.


Now, I'm not a bad player (I know a bit about playing soldier-boy) and I'm not that bad with the mouse (could be better with keyboard though), but this felt to me like I was playing vanilla BF2:

You know, that same feeling of players taking advantage of impossibly fast movement to avoid getting fragged and boldly running through "suppressing" fire knowing they have a pretty good chance of being hit but not fragged before they manage to close in on you to do the typical dive-to-prone to minimize deviation and frag you with well-practiced mouse-pointing skills.

(Granted I use an older system and a not-so-fast connection but even then the lag isn't that bad.)

Note that I am very well aware of the need to balance accuracy with other factors in the BF2 engine--a possible lack of said balance is what being implied above.

[jbgeezer]

The weapons are to inacurate, but dont zero deviaton, reduce the recoil, so you could put more rounds downrange faster(not too fast)

[hiberNative]

if this would be my mod, i'd:

• keep draw times as they are
• lower settling time from 4.0 sec to 1.5 sec for all small arms except sniper.
• small arms need 0.5 sec between semi auto rounds to keep tight groups (1 sec between shots for 7.62x51 nato and above)
• sniper should get 3 second default settling time (2 sec between shots).

would feel a bit more "realistic" and playable.

[pclipse_teh_owner]

Sniper should NOT get 2 sec between shots unless it's semi auto.

If Bolt Action, sniper should get like 5 seconds. 2 seconds to reload, and 3 seconds to settle from last shot.

But eerything else ^ ^ ^ ^ you said. Is good.

[hiberNative]

Sniper should NOT get 2 sec between shots unless it's semi auto.

why not? they can deliver a lot of rounds down range with 2 seconds between each if the want to. it's only realistic:

check the sniper closest to the camera @ 1:00.
i mean, a sniper in field will never shoot that much, but they can if they see 3 dudes about to intercept him.
2 seconds = realistic under pressure.

[ChiefRyza]

How many bloody times have the DEV's said the Sniper isn't supposed to be a killing machine? If you make it unbelievably L33t, you'll attract even more clinically retarded vanilla noobs to infest this game and ruin it one by one.

Leave the sniper as it is and focus on something else!

[Truism]

Take sniper out of the game, for great profit. I don't honestly believe the kit has a place in PR anymore. Gameplay's just moved away from it.

[R.J.Travis]

The sniper kit is fine and always has it place but if you lone wolf be ready to get flanked by the guy you killed as when he respawns its becomes his lifes mission to hunt you down and if your alone he will wait for you to fire before engaging you.

I fiend having a spotter gets you and him killed having a guard keeps you both alive.

Find your own targets let him watch your flank's.

[Gaven]

Take sniper out of the game, for great profit. I don't honestly believe the kit has a place in PR anymore. Gameplay's just moved away from it.

Wrong.

It needs the power to kill again and people need to stop looking at it in a completely recon roll.

When the sniper had the ability to kill, one sniper well positioned on a flank could wipe out an entire squad, easily. Now the God kit is juggled around and everyone lives.

But this is off topic, so let's not discuss this again unless the thread is merged.

[Bradtomshore]

I just joined up to say that if any of you had actually been to a firing range you would not be complaining about how long it takes to accurately fire a weapon and the time it takes to aim after you have taken a shot. After you have taken your shot dealt with the recoil and held your breath 2 seconds is reasonably quick to become dead accurate again.

As for the issue of diving on the ground and having to wait 6 seconds to become accurate i would say that this is quite close to real life especially when we are talking about distances above 200m.

Before you complain that this game is nothing like counterstrike and you cant bunny hop. PLEASE go to your local firing range and see how long it takes you to hit your target after you have just walked 200m have an elevated heart rate (because you could be killed) and your shooting at a moving target. Then try doing it standing up. Then try doing it on one knee and you will understand that its not as easy as counterstrike.

This game is almost too accurate when we start looking at distances beyond 200m.

I think someone said ages ago that they had crept up behind somebody he was prone and not looking at him so he unloaded a full clip on automatic. In real life that is not the best tactic. you would be better off either creeping up a little further and knifing him before he knows your there. Or you would take aim and fire one shot in his head before he had a chance to turn around.

also somebody stated that at a distance they shoot rounds off really fast because as soon as the enemy hears the bullet they know where you are and your basically dead. If the enemy has not seen you you can choose to engage him or not. A good fighter knows both when he will lose and when he will not. You're whole squad should be trained on the enemy before you open fire and It is in fact the burst of fire that lets him determine where you are. I have never known where an enemy is off his first shot unless he was in front of me. The first shot needs to be lethal so let yourself be ready.

This game has these features so that in a firefight the importance of covering and maneuvering is vital. If your squad is pinned down you cannot stand up wait for 6 seconds then kill the enemy. The first step you take wen your moving and not behind cover is to get to cover NOT stand there for 6 seconds trying to kill the person shooting at you. THEN you move to a position where you can attack successfully also known as flanking while your squad suppresses the enemy (while he reloads or whatever). Forget about running around while shooting or not getting to cover while your getting shot at.

[Cpl. Mallard]

I know a lot of you guys live in countries where owning firearms is either illegal, or very expensive, or extremely strict. I however, live in the U.S. And I don't just live in the U.S., i live in Georgia, which is in the deep south. Do i own firearms? HELL YES I DO!

Now, from the mouth of an experienced hunter and what i think of as a marksman (i'm really a modest guy, but this is one thing i actually CAN do well) I'll tell you the accuracy settings on PR are complete #@$#@%&. Now, I'm not ragging on any devs, i think yall do a great job with everything and i'm contempt with the mod as is, it's just not as realistic as it could be.

For example, my most prised possesion, my Lee-Enfield (Yes, the gun you terrorists all DREAM of getting) is, in experienced hands, as the players would be, 10 times more accurate than it is in the game. If, for example, i was at a full sprint and dropped to the ground, it would take me no more than 2-3 seconds to bust off a round accurately without a scope from about 100 yards away, guaranteed hit. And after putting the next cartridge in the chamber i'd say it takes a good second to line back up again.

I've shot an Ak-47 a couple of times. Unlike everybody else in the world who thinks it's a weapon made by God, its NOT. It's a trash gun, recoil is terrible, which needs to be bumped up a little in game. And a little more about the AK, in the game, the button you can see on the back of the action, shoots gas from the chamber out of it, going into your eye, not very enjoyable and quite distracting. All original ones are made of this crappy sheet metal thats flemsy and easily bent, I've seen the mechanism jam that brings it from Safety to Full-auto, enough said. And everybody says well oh its so reliable and you can put mud and water on it and everything!

................. I CAN DO THAT WITH ANY GUN I'VE EVER HEARD OF! IT'S SO HARD TO JAM THE ACTION OF A GUN! And another thing, the PPsh has more recoil than the Ak-74u? 7.62x25mm pistol round in PPsh and 5.45x39mm rifle round in AK? That needs to be flip flopped.

Sorry about my rant, just wanted to be clear about the Enfield at least

[CAS_117]

IM going to be laughing so hard when the dev's figger out how to introduce realistic ballistics’ physic’s into the game

combinedarms.myfreeforum.org :: Index

[ReadMenace]

I've shot an Ak-47 a couple of times. Unlike everybody else in the world who thinks it's a weapon made by God, its NOT. It's a trash gun, recoil is terrible, which needs to be bumped up a little in game. And a little more about the AK, in the game, the button you can see on the back of the action, shoots gas from the chamber out of it, going into your eye, not very enjoyable and quite distracting. All original ones are made of this crappy sheet metal thats flemsy and easily bent, I've seen the mechanism jam that brings it from Safety to Full-auto, enough said. And everybody says well oh its so reliable and you can put mud and water on it and everything!

First, you should always wear eye protection when using a firearm.. That is if you value your eyes. If you don't, then I don't see why you're complaining.

Secondly, the 'original' AK47s are milled, with a stamped dust cover; AKMs and their clones are made of steel stampings. As for their flemsiness (sic), I wouldn't suggest using any firearm as a pry bar, as that is not their intended use. Even under harsh treatment, you're not going to damage the receiver of an AKM; it would take some intentional and negligent use (Pry bar) to cause damage to the receiver that would result in it being non-functional.

As for the recoil of the 7.62x39 compared to .303, it's nothing. The recoil impulse of the AK series is a little jarring at first, but once you understand it, it's completely controllable and of no consequence.

How about you post some videos of you sprinting in full combat gear with your Enfield, going prone and putting round on target (1'x1' ) at 100m and I'm sure the DEVs will consider altering the deviation system.

-REad

[LeadMagnet]

As always, trying to discuss something before you've even played it is pointless. Save the preaching and the suggestions until after you've had a chance to download and play .86 on a full server for a few rounds.

Locked.