[HUD] Limited kits on spawn menu

[Alpha6One]

Nice Change. Lets see how this unfolds in the community.

[Squeezee]

Sounds awesome, I especially like the SAW optics.

[jbgeezer]

Nice-o-nice

[GrimSoldier]

I like the limited auto riflemen but i don't really know about the 1 medic. Although yes its realist i still like having 2 medics in squads on some maps. But overall its still nice to see.

[joethepro36]

It's nice to finally see the auto riflemen being a spawn kit again. With the kit limitation and the .85's abundance of scopes it should work out pretty well and not go back to the support spam glory days
Now more than ever people will actually pick up the damn kit! It's so horribly underused because people don't seem to use it properly, making it seem weak and cumbersome when ironically if used properly it is one of the most powerful infantry kits.

The medic change is very interesting, something that will stop a 1/3 of a squad unrealistically being medics, which although in gameplay terms works out rather well, doesn't translate well to realism/proper tactics. Combined with the 60 second death timer after reviving, it should work extremely well, making medics more careful and professional than ever.

My only criticism of the changes is that the marksman and grenadier kits are both not spawn limited kits. These are standard fare kits in an infantry squad and hardly create any problems with balance or gameyness. A grenadier kit can be pretty good, but an autorifleman kit is much better imo. I would personally leave the spawn limited kits there however, as the ability to spawn rifle at on a rally is pretty bad. (cue good/bad memories of muttrah 1).

[barbdwyer22]

I only read up to page 26 but I really do not want to read all the way up for page 35 or whatever, so, I will add my 2 cents.

As many of people have said here, there are things that are definitely given up for gameplay/BF2 engine limitations and whatnot.

People talk about realism and have their beefs with what the developers are trying to do, but it is all a step in the right direction.

I will give you something to think about when you look at these changes. A real infantry squad consists of 13 members. 3 fires teams of 4 with 1 squad leader, each fireteam has a M249SAW and a M203 grenade launcher. The SQDL will sometimes carry a M203 on his M16/M4. Typically, you are suppose to go out with 1 Corpsman per squad but often times you are only afforded two Corpsman for a platoon (3 squads per platoon.) Also, you usually have multiple AT4s (called a LAT in PR) that the rifleman carry

Also, like someone else mentioned, medic kits should be able to be picked up because ALL MARINES are taught basic field medicine in boot camp. We also have something called Combat Life Savers which are Marines taught by Corpsman to be assistant Corpsman and carry a thigh rig with extra medical supplies. I am a CLS Marine and I know thing like administering IVs, treating hemorraging, etc.

[barbdwyer22]

I mean, you can go on and on about stuff like this. With the way warfare is these days, there are always things that are changing to the basic load outs of infantry squads and whatnot.

I mean, from what I said in the above post, would that not mean grenadier and LATs should be spawnable kits too?

Where is the DM kit? They have a marksman kit but that is actually a rifle that snipers use. A standard Marine infantry squad have a guy called a DM (designated marksman) which all that consists of is a M16 with a harris bipod and a scope/universal night sight (UNS).

[Antonious_Bloc]

The marksmen kit uses a modified M14. According to wikipedia and the various media that I have seen, that's the USMC's official designated marksman rifle.They use both the M14 and the modified M16s though, as confirmed by the USMC's recruiting website.

[Antonious_Bloc]

I can't figure out how to edit that post, but apparently the M16 version is also officially called the "advanced marksmen rifle" and has the same role.

[barbdwyer22]

I know, I am in the Marine Infantry, I am just saying we never had a modified M14 in our squads, we had a guy who was elected "DM" and was given some bipods and a scope with UNS. I did see snipers with the M14s though.

[Rudd]

I know, I am in the Marine Infantry, I am just saying we never had a modified M14 in our squads, we had a guy who was elected "DM" and was given some bipods and a scope with UNS. I did see snipers with the M14s though.

hi mate, always great to see servicemen around here. I suspect the real reason for the lack of modified m16 is because it would mean the current m16 model would have to be modified and reimported in to the game afaik. (I'm not entirely sure on model modifications, but I think so)

And therefore is lower on the agenda than some other stuff, since the m14 is as you say...used...so Lets hope for .9 eh?!

[barbdwyer22]

Far enough, but what about grenadier and LATs in the spawn menu?

Those are standard in every squad too.

[Rudd]

If you could spawn in as Grenadier/LAT it would increase the amount of spam imo. As you spawn in with max ammo.

Better to spawn in, then have to get it from a supply crate imo as it makes the supply lines more important, and preparation before a fight as well.

like, you spawn, you fire all ur grenades, you die, 30seconds later your back with ur grenade launcher.

Or your fighting an APC, you fire ur LAT, but you get killed, no biggy...spawn in.

[barbdwyer22]

Gameplay over realism, would not be a problem if you when you died...you're dead. =P

[Cheditor]

Yes but then you kill all the fun, honestly getting killed in Arma on the BHD mission when some AI got a lucky shot on you while your in a LB is really not fun.

[barbdwyer22]

Have to make compromises I suppose.

[sakils2]

If you could spawn in as Grenadier/LAT it would increase the amount of spam imo. As you spawn in with max ammo.

Better to spawn in, then have to get it from a supply crate imo as it makes the supply lines more important, and preparation before a fight as well.

like, you spawn, you fire all ur grenades, you die, 30seconds later your back with ur grenade launcher.

Or your fighting an APC, you fire ur LAT, but you get killed, no biggy...spawn in.

When you die with the limited kit, it should spawn after 5 minutes. There shouldn't be a lot of spam, if you give a relocation time. Problem solved.

[joethepro36]

I'm afraid I disagree you here rudd on grenadier kits being spammable. A grenadier kit, one per squad is hardly going to cause an avalanche of nades. As I previously stated, an autorifleman poses a greater threat to a squad. A grenadier has to switch to the m203, sight in while possibly taking fire, estimate range, hold for a second to ensure maximum accuracy and then launch an explosive that could perhaps take out 2-3 guys excessively close together at it's most powerful (like in a room).

The set up time for an autorifleman is a lot longer and is best done in a position where you expect contact. The strength of this is that it is only set up once before firing whereas a grenadier has to set up everytime.

When set up it is pretty unstoppable and with squad support it can win firefights . When ambushing a squad crossing a street I've seen it tear everyone down who dares set a foot off the pavement in seconds let alone it's ability to keep a whole squad pinned in cover during a regular exchange (and taking into consideration that autoriflemen will have a scope it's going to be better at this).

Regarding at kits spawning in via limited kits; It is too much and too strong. An at kit in the current version will take out a brdm or any light vehicle instantly. A lengthy set up time sure, but when you have one approaching you it's pretty much a confirmed kill and cue the unavoidable loss of tickets. Shot/naded people can be revived, dead people in vehicles and the vehicle itself cannot. More importantly it can two shot an apc/ifv which are respectively 5 and 10 tickets lost each (source is the new .86 manual). So leave it at the rifle varients, there is no need to bring back anti-tank spawn, even if it is essential to a squad.

Hell, this isn't even concerning the marksman kit which I believe should also have the spawn ability added in. I don't see it as important as the autorifleman or grenadier kits though, as it's less intergral ingame due to engagement distances being generally less than 300m.

I would just like to sum this up by asking, how many times do you die to a grenadier compared to a support gun? I've personally been hit by it considerably less.

[Rudd]

I'm afraid I disagree you here rudd on grenadier kits being spammable. A grenadier kit, one per squad is hardly going to cause an avalanche of nades. As I previously stated, an autorifleman poses a greater threat to a squad. A grenadier has to switch to the m203, sight in while possibly taking fire, estimate range, hold for a second to ensure maximum accuracy and then launch an explosive that could perhaps take out 2-3 guys excessively close together at it's most powerful (like in a room).

yeah, but you can take cover from bullets, those explosives will find you and kill you, then they will search your computer for pron and blow that up 2.

[joethepro36]

So what? Every class except the autorifleman takes cover from bullets in a firefight. And besides, in my experience, using the rifle rather than the grenade launcher as the firefight starts is far better. It is only when the enemy digs into cover (usually via a SAW) that the grenades become more useful.

Come on, the grenadier kit deserves to be a limited spawn kit and you know it. Sure it's not as important as the autorifleman and medic in the squad but having to get to supplies everytime to just get a grenadier kit (which is effectively worse than a autorifleman kit) is just a tad silly.