British Tank/Armor crews and their sidearm/rifles

[Snakeforhire]

Duh... what the hell's wrong with you guys ? lol

Those rifles are little more than a piece of ****. Check out this link :
Modern Firearms - Enfield L85 (SA80) assault rifle

I won't even talk about the original A1 version, which was good for only one thing : tossing onto a scrap heap (and it's not even made of recyclable polymer, ugh)...

Even in the upgraded A2 version which frees it from most of its failures and drawbacks, it's still no piece of cake. It takes tremendous maintenance to keep it functioning correctly (much like a M16A4 rifle in the sandy desert conditions of Afghanistan and Iraq. but then that's the US/UK militaries fault : they should pick up fights in areas where their weapons will work.. :lol , has poor balance which is countered only by installing an underbarrel 40mm grenade launcher, the fire selector is badly placed, the bullpup layout isn't so practical (makes changing magazines a pain in the *** IMO), and a few other things...

The only thing that's nice about it is its scope (because of its tritium crosshairs, which gives it limited night-shooting capabilities), but that can be taken off and mounted on another NATO compatible picatinny rail. I'd get it off and mount it on an M4 or a CAR15, which looks cooler, is pretty compact, and is way more modular (so you can tailor it to the mission's objectives).

But well, it's a matter of opinion I guess.. I'd understand that brits tend to favor domestic-made weapons, even if it's not that great. We frenchmen do the same with the FAMAS rifle..

[Rhino]

Duh... what the hell's wrong with you guys ? lol

Those rifles are little more than a piece of ****. Check out this link :
Modern Firearms - Enfield L85 (SA80) assault rifle

do you believe everything you read on the internet?

Try asking the people who really use these weapons and see what they say.

What you will find is that generally Soldiers in the British Army really like the L85A2 etc and it has only gone wrong where it has been there fault for not doing something correctly and that is not very often at all.

I'm sure our MAs will have a lot more to comment about if they want to post but yes, while the L85A1 may have had some problems, the L85A2 is a vast improvement and an extremely effective weapon.

[Undies]

Original SA80 weapons (both L85 and L86) were plagued with many problems, some being very serious. In general, L85 was quite unreliable and troublesome to handle and maintain, so, finally, in the year 1997, after years of constant complaints from the troops, it had been decided to upgrade most L85 rifles then in service.

The reasons behind upgrades were begun with the process of Equipment Failure Reports (EFR) which are submitted at sub unit level when major failure occurs, there is nowhere a soldier can directly complein to, we don't have a complaints department unfortunately

The current L85A2 rifles are recognized as reliable and very accurate, especially when using standard issue SUSAT telescope sights. The drawbacks of the L85A2 are somewhat poor balance (which can be improved with installation of HK-made 40mm underbarrel grenade launcher), right-side only extraction and rearward placement of the fire mode selector.

They are reliable and accurate, in my experience, with any sight except iron sights. (Though these are good for a few hundred yards)

Poor balance is only a problem if the user has arms like a Barbie doll or is a 7 stone weakling. When in the shoulder, the fact the weight is at the rear makes it very easy to use if anything. I have known people fire it very accurately with only one hand as there is very little weight to the front.

The placement of the fire mode selector is IMHO a point of no concern, British SOP's only require the use of automatic when in the final stages of an assault and it generally stays on Single shot 99% of the time anyway. The right hand side ejector is a problem though, as it requires left handed firers to learn to shoot right naded, though i have never known anybody have problems if i am honest. Once practised a few times, guys seem to take to it straight away.

[Cheditor]

Ok well was in the cadet force for 2 years and though we used the smaller calibre cadet variant of the L85 the design was pretty much the same. The Bul pup design is a pleasure to change magazines as holding but the pistol grip near the front makes the gun much lighter in my opinion. It was a nice easy weapon to move with, fits snugly under your arm, doesnt stick out like M4s etc.

[Scot]

The right hand side ejector is a problem though, as it requires left handed firers to learn to shoot right naded, though i have never known anybody have problems if i am honest. Once practised a few times, guys seem to take to it straight away.

Left handed? What's that

Having used an A2 they are an awesome weapons system, and very easy to use, nice to carry, and I too love the sights

However, keep the friggin cadet version away from me, horrible horrible rifle!

[gazzthompson]

Ok well was in the cadet force for 2 years and though we used the smaller calibre cadet variant of the L85 the design was pretty much the same. The Bul pup design is a pleasure to change magazines as holding but the pistol grip near the front makes the gun much lighter in my opinion. It was a nice easy weapon to move with, fits snugly under your arm, doesnt stick out like M4s etc.

the cadet l85 is still 5.56, only single shot.

[Scot]

Whilst saying that, the new L98 is coming, originally dubbed the L98A2 It is semi auto, and is effectively a L85A2, without the firemode selector, and hopefully, cadets all over the country will rejoice in the fact they don't have to use that f***ing cocking handle!

[LeChuckle]

Oh man, the L85 is so sexy! I wish I were in the british armed forces.

.............................................

[CareBear]

arr the cadet gp, what a git!

my poor arm still shivers at the thought of firing 200 blank rounds at a rapid rate of fire against a platoon cadets running around like a bunch of retards with the NCO's trying to get some sense into them

give me an A2 any time, i love the way it feels, and i agree with undies, the balancing 'issues' make the weapon very easy to use especially on patrol etc etc,

[Cpl.Small]

The L85A2 rocks, and I'm sure that when we cadets get the L98A2 that will be great no more jams after every round fired

[barbdwyer22]

"Every Marine is a rifleman" is not really a new concept or motto for us. This is a term we have been using for quite some time now. The idea behind it is that everyone, regardless of MOS, is basically trained in infrantry tactics.

Unlike the US Armies "basic" (what Marines call Boot Camp) which are specialized based on MOS, the Marines have the same Boot Camp for all MOS's. Every Marine goes through the same Physical Training, Marksmanship, basic infantry tactics, and only after this 12 week period (technically 13 weeks but the first week is processing) do you graduate as a Marine and move on to your Primary MOS school. That means whether you are a Cook or a Grunt, they both know how to camouflage themselves, how to patrol in different formations, can effectively shoot targets with iron sights at 500yards, etc.

As for rifles, I would much rather have a L85A2 over a M16A4/M4A1. As many have stated here with experience in the British military, the bullpup design is superior in my opinion. The amount of stability you achieve by having the majority of the weight at the rear near your shoulders is remarkable. Case in point, we try to teach Marines to put their night optic equipment as far back on the handguard rails as possible.

Oh and to add to the topic, from what I have seen, it works almost the same as the Brits, M4s and M9 Service Pistols are given to US Armor crews.

[Sgt.North]

Back a good few years ago, after one interesting training weekend at cadets, i got banned from ever using the L98 ever again, pulled 5 cocking handles off in a row, after that was always given a Gimpy, or occasionally L85A1. Now appart from the weight was 16/17 at the time I loved the Gimpy, was a joy and delight to use.

Plus put more rounds downrange than everyone else put together.

Loved cutting targets in half on the range.

[gazzthompson]

GIMPY in cadets !?!?!? u mean LSW ?

[Sgt. Mahi]

Did you read the post?

Whoops.. Sorry missed that british part

[gazzthompson]

yeah, at army hosted events surely not a weekend.