[Ideas] PR Future Engine Ideas and Suggestions

[PBEnthusiast]

Is PR2 going to be free?

[cyberzomby]

Ohyea! I agree with you guys that a subscription is most rewarding for you.

[nicoX]

If people have problem paying $30 for a year of a game that looks like CoD4, feels like Infiltration, has the scale and scope of ArmA, the teamwork systems of PR and a bunch of new innovations... those people are probably not going to pay anything for a game (this is a reason why PC gaming is suffering.. there is a LOT of free content available in the form of mods or pirated games.. a lot of people think everything should be free all the time).

And the notion of subscription is just an idea. We want to be able to release it in a solid but early stage.. and continue to develop it.. for many years thereafter. It's not viable for us to develop PR commercially and give away updates for ever. It's not viable for us to take 5 years to develop PR to a "one point oh" stage where we can sell it...

egg

Agree with you, then I don't see other solution than having a subscription on it, even though I and probably many other hate the idea to be on a subscription, as it feels so impersonal, and that you will feel forced to play it just because you made a payment for some time.

Is there any other ideas for financing the game?

Ohyea! I agree with you guys that a subscription is most rewarding for you.

Depends of the popularity of the game.

[Farks]

May I ask, what does C4 allow in the scope of HUDs, targeting systems, vehicle physics and camera stabiliation? Is it possible to implement all these things well? Well, I assume so if someone can code it being open and all.


It might be a bit early for this or clasified, but what will PR2 do vehicle wise? Will it go for realism in the systems or artificial limitations to achieve teamwork? If cameras can be stabilised and acurate targeting systems that are realistic be made, will they be used?

Sorry if it is a bit much to ask at the moment.

Alex - they're not making a mod now, they are making a completely new game. They will make everything from scratch, including vehicles, so the answer is simply "yes".

[cyberzomby]

Depends of the popularity of the game.

Well, even if just 2 people end up getting it and paying a subscription for 2 years. Its more worthwile for them than if they'd just charge 30 one time. Argueably they'd just charge 60 for a one time ammount tho

[nicoX]

Ohyea! I agree with you guys that a subscription is most rewarding for you.

Well, even if just 2 people end up getting it and paying a subscription for 2 years. Its more worthwile for them than if they'd just charge 30 one time. Argueably they'd just charge 60 for a one time ammount tho

It's also worthwhile paying for 80+ years at once, having the devalue inmind and that a one year subscription might cost that much then
And you will not have to worry about your monthly or yearly finance. $2400 is not that much if you think about it for a game like PR.

[McBumLuv]

So long as any subscription based thing is on a per-hour-played basis, not a per-month or per-year basis. I dont much like the idea of paying a flat rate for it no matter how much I actually use it, but paying for what I use seems fair enough.

Welshboy would never be able to afford it

I think payment methods should be the smallest of priorities, though you should listen to the community about it. A small base payment and smaller monthly / yearly options would be good, of course allowing for weekly demos or w/e.

[MrSh@vid]

Simple answer would then be to do both.

1) For those that do not play as much , they can pay per hours, during holidays it may be a disadvantage for them, but during the average working week, they will find it cheaper as their hours are low.

2) For those that are regulars, allow them to play a flat charge every month, giving them unlimited access.

[eggman]

There will not be an hourly subscription service heh.

[waldo_ii]

Oh man. I will not, over my cold, rotting, deceased body, buy a subscription-paid game.

[CodeRedFox]

Everyone is so worried about how much it will cost? You cheap Fraks

[Rudd]

Everyone is so worried about how much it will cost? You cheap Fraks

You DEVs are like Drug Dealers....you get us hooked then jack up the price!!!

Hehehe

[Kenny]

1. Will we have new customisation abilities, With our weapons and equipment? (I mean will it be looked at)

2. I wanted to know are you guys starting completly form scrach or will we be able to see some of our favorit modles in the new PR (all the stuff that has been made by our Devs not borrowed for the other mods)

[Masaq]

Let's be clear guys - PR2 is very (highly) unlikely to be a game that is ever released on a single release date with all the intended content and features that those working on it wish to put into it included; in the way that most FPS games are released.

Far more likely is that a limited-scope game would come out, with additional content coming at a later date. That's what a subscription-style payment system would allow for; ongoing continuous development, a lá PR1.

[Skodz]

eggman;1047310']Because that way we don't make any sort of "official" statements which may be construed as promoting what could end up being vaporware. I hate it when folks do that... I've been a gamer for 35 years.. seen a lot of that...always hated it. I'd really prefer to keep it informal, but at the same time building interest helps with morale and momentum.

PR2 is a stupidly ambitious undertaking, only feasible because of the passion a bunch of us have to make a game that doesn't yet exist and no one else has the blind faith to jump into the abyss a few of us have flailed ourselves into.

Here's a quick FAQ:
1. Is the PR team working on a complete stand alone game?
Yes, although as of June 6, 2009 we are in Pre Production mode.

2. What engine is the team using?
The C4 engine.

2B. Is this the engine that the team won with MOTY?
No. We evaluated the Torque engine(s) and found that the C4 engine would be a better fit for our long term goals.

2C. Why not Unreal? Or id? Or "engine x"?
We have no budget. We need to work with an indie priced engine. We don't want to get bogged down in legal contracts and business entities. Nor do we want to strike some kind of "deal" with a publisher who forces us to make a game *they* want to sell as opposed to the one *we* want to make (as improbable as a publishing deal would be). Additionally we want to support the Indie gaming community and the C4 engine and it's author Eric Lengyel are stellar examples of how indie gaming is progressing.

3. What will the game be like?
Like PR1 mixed with Infiltration, ArmA and CoD4. So in other words.. ideally it will look like CoD4, play like Infiltration, have the scale of ArmA, the accessibility, team structures and innovations of PR1 & some new PR2 innovations to tie it all together.

4. Where will it be set?
Classified as of June 6, 2009.

5. What factions will be represented?
Classified as of June 6, 2009.

6. How many players will be supported?
We are hoping to support a minimum of 33 players per team (4 x 8 man squads + 1 Commander) for a total of 66 players. Ideally we'll support 98 players total preferably up to 130 (8 x 8 man squads + 1 Commander per team).

7. How big will the maps be?
Maps will be scaled based on the type of engagement; infantry maps will be smaller, combined arms maps will be larger. The C4 engine theoretically will support unlimited terrain sizes.

8. How much will it cost?
Right now we don't know. It will likely be sold via subscription, hopefully through Steam. Yes, Steam can suck, but it has a lot of great infrastructure for PC sales and distribution. It'll be something like $3 per month or $30 for a year subscription in advance. Again not definite, we'll figure that out over the coming months.

9. Will there be a free alpha / beta?
Yes, we'll be releasing several playable builds of the years of development incrementally moving towards a "one point oh" release that will be commercially available.

10. Will there be vehicles?
Duh.

11. Will everyone be able to play 5P35HU1 F0RC3Z?
No, PR2 will be a class based game much like PR1 (only with a much better UI for the class and squad systems).

12. When will it be released?
Dunno. As of June 6, 2009 I'd guess 2011 at the earliest as a commercial product.

13. When will there be a playable alpha?
Depends on playable hehe. But hopefully in 2009 we'll be able to distribute an early build to the community that shows off some of the basics.

14. Will there be a physics system?
Yes. If the C4 engine's physics system proves inadequate, we'll integrate a 3rd party physics engine. As of June 6, 2009 the C4 engine v1.5.9 does not include a physics system (although shipping titles on C4 have integrated 3rd party physics engines). The C4 roadmap includes a physics engine in C4 v1.6. The physics system in C4 is designed to be a "network aware" physics engine. Networked physics is extremely difficult to pull off, particularly in lare scale multiplayer environments (physics uses up network traffic). But we all dislike the idea of elm trees that can stop a tank.

15. Will PR2 be released on consoles?
Heh.. if I say "yes" people will say "pmg, the f00k3d pr for consoles". But the reality is that if a publisher came to us and said "we'll fund you to port the PC version of PR2 to 360 and/or PS3" .. we'd consider it (yes mostly for a sell out whoring of money). The C4 engine works on PS3 today and will, probably by 2010, work on XBox 360. Basically we're going to try and avoid any decisions that would make a console "port" be unnecessarily difficult. But the tactical gamer on the PC platform is our primary audience.

16. What else can you tell us?
I dunno, that's prolly already too much given we're still in pre production mode and are not even sure if we can pull this off.

Awesome news

[eggman]

btw regards subscription.. think of it like this...

The whole notion of a subscription and an "annual bundle" price point is that if you don't like subscription services, just buy a year at a time. In fact, we might even just look at a 12 month and a 6 month subscription fee. Something like $18 for 6 months, or $30 for 12 months.

We'd sell the initial game +1 year for $30 total (as an example). After a year you will need to re-subscribe. Let's say it's $18 for 6 months, or you can buy another full year for $30. If through that first year we have "earned" your respect as a consumer and you decide to subscribe for another year at the "bundle" price of $30.. you can play for another year. Or you can buy a 6 month sub.

It gives us an opportunity to continue to develop the game. And we'd ideally be looking at nearly double the content over a 2 year period. I know the economics being this stuff.. and we'd need upwards of 100k subscribers to get even remotely close to breaking even.

egg

[Maxfragg]

sounds like a good concept to me

[nicoX]

btw regards subscription.. think of it like this...

The whole notion of a subscription and an "annual bundle" price point is that if you don't like subscription services, just buy a year at a time. In fact, we might even just look at a 12 month and a 6 month subscription fee. Something like $18 for 6 months, or $30 for 12 months.

We'd sell the initial game +1 year for $30 total (as an example). After a year you will need to re-subscribe. Let's say it's $18 for 6 months, or you can buy another full year for $30. If through that first year we have "earned" your respect as a consumer and you decide to subscribe for another year at the "bundle" price of $30.. you can play for another year. Or you can buy a 6 month sub.

It gives us an opportunity to continue to develop the game. And we'd ideally be looking at nearly double the content over a 2 year period. I know the economics being this stuff.. and we'd need upwards of 100k subscribers to get even remotely close to breaking even.

egg

Why not sell the game for a fix price, with that income you can continue updating the game and release patches.
When you are about to do a major update or change in the game, for say about after 2-3 years, just release PR3 and start with a new fix price.
This way everyone would be happy, you buy a personal game which you will own, and even if PR3 or PR4 comes out you still know, you can keep on playing the game you bought once in the time.

A subscription service is scammy in my eyes, I won't support it no matter how good the game turns out.
I might as well go back to Vanilla, tag a team named "PR Rejects" and have me some blast against the morons.