What this MOD need for more realism ?

fred450 · Post by **fred450** » 2006-05-27 16:59

Nick666 wrote:2) the ammunition given away should substracted from your inventory

Than players really gone bingo would have a mark on them visible to buddies, to prevent "need ammo" abuses. So if you saw an empty fellow and you got say 5 mags left you could hand him a couple. I'm liking this idea.

Nick666 · Post by **Nick666** » 2006-05-27 17:06

'[R-DEV wrote:Katarn']Erm, the standard 30 round 5.56 mag would fit in an m249 as well.

well, maybe. i don't know the exactly ammunition-dimensions for both guns right now. Not only the calibre but also the length of the round is important.
but as an assault, you have your ammunition in a corresponding clip. For the M249, this is a box or a belt and not an e.g. M16 clip.

So, from M16-clip to M249-box would not do the job when in the heat of a battle.

fred450 · Post by **fred450** » 2006-05-27 17:18

Nick666 wrote:So, from M16-clip to M249-box would not do the job when in the heat of a battle.

You can always manually take bullets from clips and put them in a MG box, or am I wrong? I think they did something like this in the movie Saving Private Ryan"?

Post by **Fullforce** » 2006-05-27 17:43

Yes, but imagine putting 200 rounds in a M249 one by one, in the middle of a battle.

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-05-27 18:01

http://www.historychannel.com/broadband ... _broadband
vid on landmines.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-27 18:26

The receiver on the M249 fits the machine gun ammo boxes as well as M16 magazines. It's designed to take both, so if you're out of MG ammo you can load up an M16 cartridge from one of your comrades. Interestingly enough, the M249 has a rate of fire of 1000 rounds per second when firing M16 ammo. That's pretty neat if you ask me.

For ammo sharing it'd require a completely new system. Perhaps the last weapon slot for each player could be primary ammo for their weapon, so it shows the player holding a magazine for the M16 or whatever. Pressing fire would drop it like an ammo bag or something, and someone else could pick it up, but it'd also subtract 1 magazine from your primary ammo and reloading your primary weapon would remove 1 magazine from your supply. The assault class could therefore carry more ammunition than a standard trooper and would be free to hand it out. Heck, this would mean other classes could carry additional ammunition based on type and hand them out, thus not restricting one class to ammo duty. The assault class could carry 10 magazines or something, he'd be free to use them all himself or to hand them out to Spec Ops, Support etc. The Anti Tank class for example could carry spare pistol ammo. The engineer class would carry extra grenades for everybody. That means only the Sniper, Engineer and AT class are limited on their 'specialist' weapons meaning they'll have to get resupplied from a vehicle or supply crate making them all more important assets. I see no negatives in this idea, and it at least means ammo bags don't 'respawn', the assault class just carries more mags than usual and still needs to replenish himself to give out more or use them himself.

I think I just solved a pretty big BF2 problem... I'd LOVE to see this happen, it'd just be a pain making the M249 take two different types of ammo. Perhaps it'd work like the GL and assault rifle combinations. The M16 mode would be like changing the ammo on the shotgun (damn, I miss those things...). It'd just require a slightly extended draw animation depending on what one you use, simulating the changing of the cartridge or the general difficulty of drawing an M249. Even if the player had an M249 ammo bag they could switch to M16 ammo just to get the additional ROF despite the short mags that'd be depleted real quick.

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-05-27 18:33

That would be pretty cool. In essence it simualtes a troop giving one of it's mags to an friendly soilder.

fred450 · Post by **fred450** » 2006-05-27 18:42

EDITED. Sorry, I made a mistake.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-27 18:49

It's not unrealistic, the M249 can take both types of ammo and it'd be unrealistic not to allow the support class for the USMC to take the magazines. If the support gunner is out of ammo he can take a comrade's M16 magazine and use his weapon as an assault rifle, should anyone choose to give him the ammo in the first place. The coolest part is the magazines go in the side.

For the best effects of this, it'd be best if the MEC assault rifle is reverted to the AK-74 firing the 5.45 ammo. That way, they also can share their 30 rounds mags between the Spec Ops' AKS-74U, the assault and medic's AK-74 and the support's RPK-74 which takes either the default C mag or a friend's 30 round mag. Also, China would need to have the Type 95 assault rifle added meaning they too could share ammo between the four main classes all using the 5.8 ammo, just as the USMC and MEC could.

Wow, what a cool gameplay idea!

fred450 · Post by **fred450** » 2006-05-27 18:57

Sorry Malik, I missunderstood you. I've edited my post above. I first thought the support class would be able to swap from box to clip in the start. Obviously no.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-27 19:19

Yes, yes I meant that, I think. The way the support weapons would handle would be like the old shotguns worked. You would press '3' to bring up the support gun as usual. But pressing '4' would switch to magazine mode. By default, a support gunner would not carry any magazines so this would be inneffective. If a magazine bearer chooses to do so, he can give a magazine to the support class which is then set into their 'magazine mode'. Now then they hit 4 they can reload as usual and start firing 30 rounds mags instead. Although the M249 gets an 'advantage' of having a fast rate of fire, the support guns of China and the MEC would be identical, just of course they'd have less ammunition at their disposal.

Really, I think it's best the M249 doesn't get the increases ROF, I think it may be abused slightly. People would use the M16 clips to make the M249 even more lethal than it is at the moment. It'd be the fastest firing weapon in the game.

The best bit about this is that after a while in the field, the only way the support class can be resupplied is by using magazines thus giving them an assault rifle and taking away their main advantage of using supressive fire. They'd also be able to pass around their magazines if they wanted to, just as the medic, assault and spec ops class could. Supply drops and vehicles would be super important as a supply crate would have enough ammo to max out a whole squad's magazine counts, giving them enough to spread out through the whole team. No more respawning ammo bags!

fred450 · Post by **fred450** » 2006-05-27 19:30

Ok I get the idea. We just have to keep in mind that the current Support class is already unbalanced as it is and, in order to implement that idea, we should simultaneously weaken some other aspect of the class (such as speed, delay to get accuracy, instaproning elimination or whatever). Than I think we could use the increased ROF.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-27 19:42

Yes, I think the support class ought to be made a little slower. I've made my point clear about the prone spamming problem in the 'Insta-prone' thread, I think that's the best solution there. The increase ROF for the M249 would be a USMC specific thing, and as many people have stated the teams aren't supposed to be perfectly balance. The only thing I fear is the increased popularity of using the M249 for it's super fast mode. All you need is a magazine and you've got yourself a super powerful, super fast CQB weapon. The P90 from vBF2 has a rate of fire of 900rpm and look at how much havoc that thing could wreak. Now imagine an M16 firing at 1000rpm on full auto...

fred450 · Post by **fred450** » 2006-05-27 19:50

Is there a way to decrease mouse sensitivity for M249? Because since it's heavy and big it shouldn't be chosen for CQB.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-27 19:53

I'm going to start a new thread based solely on these collective ideas so the devs can clearly see what the suggestion is. I think it's a really good idea that's definetely doable.

Globetrotter · Post by **Globetrotter** » 2006-05-27 19:53

dont forget the antitank and ammo for him.

i am antitank in swiss army and i only have one missle with me to fire.
i think the support soldier should can choose wich ammo he pick up from car.
and then he can carrie the ammo where its needed.
and the antitank really need a gun not only pistol. i also have a gun.

medic do otherwise.. medic pic up wounded persons on his back and walk back to the car where he heal the one wich is wounded. he cant run with the person on his back thats why he have few smoke grenades he can use.

vehicle damage has to be updated. if vehicle get hit, his speed should slow down to simulate a damge. what you think about that ??

and now the quastion : the modder read what we are talking about ??

regards globetrotter

fred450 · Post by **fred450** » 2006-05-27 20:05

How do you add "stars" to the thread rating? This thread should get all stars cause it talks about important issues from top to bottom.

Nick666 · Post by **Nick666** » 2006-05-28 00:13

Malik wrote: The receiver on the M249 fits the machine gun ammo boxes as well as M16 magazines. It's designed to take both, so if you're out of MG ammo you can load up an M16 cartridge from one of your comrades. Interestingly enough, the M249 has a rate of fire of 1000 rounds per second when firing M16 ammo. That's pretty neat if you ask me.
...

Well, even if this is possible (I believe this, no question) I think this is hard to code, too complicated and even harder to balance (who can give to whom which ammunition, which rof with those clip, how much shots, any unfair advantages for one army because of more possibilities in "ammosharing", ...)

To keep it simple with a good compromise in gameplay, effort, and realism I would only allow to share ammunition within the same player class even if the reality would allow more possibilities.

The support class have to be balanced but please don't cripple the gun, the machinegun have to rock. just think why not every soldier in real battlefield is running around rambostyle with an MG! It is mainly the severe cutback in mobility and the limitation to only shoot such a gun effectivley in prone position. But if an machinegunner is nested in a good position, such a guy have to be a harder opponent than a "normal" assault class.

Very important is the "instant proning, instant accuracy" problem. This have to be fixed. Also a gun fired from the hips (with no aiming) should be extreme inaccurate!

The sniperrifles have to be finetuned. The recoil is too low because your view is near the same after a shot thus you don't have to reaim that much. In "America's Army" the sniperrifles snatch much much more to a random direction and your aim is out of sight after a shot!