The support must keep his power, sniper must become even more lethal, AT must be one shot kill. They must just limit the number of the special kits per team. Just like Forgotten Hope does. You can't spawn with these kits, you pick them from location in your base.
The only problem is, that i am not sure that this is possible to with BF2 engine as it is with BF1942.
Suggestion for class balancing
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Burning Mustache
- Posts: 92
- Joined: 2006-05-15 23:21
We've had numerous discussions on kit-limits, let's not derail this thread into that flame-fest again 
EDIT: I see that your account seems pretty new, so you might have missed that thread. I won't elaborate on kit-limits in here because I don't want this discussion to derail and because I have made some very clear points in this thread here:
http://realitymod.com/forum/t6136-p-fan ... tions.html
EDIT: I see that your account seems pretty new, so you might have missed that thread. I won't elaborate on kit-limits in here because I don't want this discussion to derail and because I have made some very clear points in this thread here:
http://realitymod.com/forum/t6136-p-fan ... tions.html
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OverwatchX
- Posts: 258
- Joined: 2005-07-10 20:53
Mustache: Why on earth would you be so idiotic with a post that bascially says because there are flags and respawn that 100% realism cannot be achieved? That is ridiculous. Absurd. Please.
I swear its like banging ones head into a brick wall over and over again. Dont you think people who make points for changing or tweaking the game to a more realistic simulation also dont want to have some Logitech USB 2.0 Heart Stopper device rigged to their chest that actually kills them when they die in a game? Whatever. Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh!
All we are saying is, make the game more of a simulation and less an arcade experience. More Flight Simulator X and less Crimson Skies. More Operation Flashpoint and less Duke Nukem.
I swear its like banging ones head into a brick wall over and over again. Dont you think people who make points for changing or tweaking the game to a more realistic simulation also dont want to have some Logitech USB 2.0 Heart Stopper device rigged to their chest that actually kills them when they die in a game? Whatever. Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh!
All we are saying is, make the game more of a simulation and less an arcade experience. More Flight Simulator X and less Crimson Skies. More Operation Flashpoint and less Duke Nukem.
Last edited by OverwatchX on 2006-05-27 03:29, edited 1 time in total.
Realism and fun aren't mutually exclusive.
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Burning Mustache
- Posts: 92
- Joined: 2006-05-15 23:21
Maybe you kinda misunderstood me.JohnDoeGamer wrote:Mustache: Why on earth would you be so idiotic with a post that bascially says because there are flags and respawn that 100% realism cannot be achieved? That is ridiculous. Absurd. Please.
Let me explain it this way:
On the one hand, people are complaining about a "magical" wrench to repair tanks in the middle of a bttlefield or "magical" health packs which the medic just has to hold towards his wounded comrad for a while to heal him - this is, I admit, not very realistic, arcadey and all.
For some people, it seems, the game can't get real enough (they want the engineer removed completely because "repairing" (or rahter standing next to a tank, yielding a wrench for a couple of seconds) in the middle of the battlefield seems dumb - yet NO ONE complains about things that are much more "arcadey" and unrealistic: FLAGS in the middle of a battlefield, the ability to "respawn" (especially out of thin air on the squad leader, etc.))
My point is, that, flags, respawning etc. just ADD to the game because, hey, after all, this IS a game and in order to be decently fun for everybody, we'll have to leave a few "arcadey" aspects in it, otherwise it would get incredibly boring and frustrating (like real war - well maybe not "boring", but indeed frustrating
).So why bother when you can't go for 100% anyway and just leave the "magical" wrench and medpacks in there too ?
Yes, it looks stupid if an engineer is standing next to a tank "repairing" it in the middle of a firefight, but the way the game is now balanced out (with the tanks so vulnerable, etc) it's just the way the tanks and vehicles work best - WITH "magical" engineers.
If you'd remove them and a single AT hit would render a tank useless, nobody would use tanks anymore.
EDIT:
Or, another way of putting it:
You have to draw a line somewhere between reality and "arcade-style" gameplay fun.
I think we both can agree that if you'd start a round and you couldn't respawn, forced to watch the rest of the round, the game would be incredibly boring. Respawning, however, is unrealistic. After all, in real life, once you're dead, you're dead. You don't get a second chance to go to the battlefield.
I realize that the "dead-once - no respawn" feature would be incredibly retarded - THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT.
You have to draw a line where too much realism just distracts from the fun of this game.
My point was just that the "magical" wrenches and medkits, while not being too realistic, are still on the side of the line which enhances the gameplay while not being too "arcade-style" and, all things considered, should be left in because they add more to the gameplay than to distract because of how unrealistic they are.
Same goes for the obligatory flags and the respawning. It's not realistic, but it makes the gameplay easier and more enjoyable for everyone, in my opinion.
I hope this explained my point a little better, sorry for being harsh or confusing before.
Last edited by Burning Mustache on 2006-05-27 09:00, edited 1 time in total.
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OverwatchX
- Posts: 258
- Joined: 2005-07-10 20:53
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driftist
- Posts: 59
- Joined: 2006-05-12 06:13
In regards to the first page :
I can't even be bothered to go through all the useless suggestions you have made. They ruin gameplay, they make everything boring and they make every game stretch on forever. IN FACT, IF YOU WANT YOUR REALISM, WHY DON'T WE REMOVE :
Your MAP
THE TICKET FEATURE
EVERYTHING ON YOUR HUD
The ability to FLY anything (I MEAN, WHAT? A SOLDIER FLYING A
LITTLEBIRD? HOW UNREALISTIC!)
The ability to choose your class (WHAT KIND OF SOLDIER IS TRAINED AT
EVERYTHING?)
The RESPAWN feature
The bleed feature (WHY BLEED? YOU'RE ALREADY DEAD AFTER 1 SHOT!)
The ability to REPAIR anything
The SUPPLY CRATES
The commander's LAPTOP!
OMG! ONLY 1 AT ROCKET?
In fact, we can even add some incredibly FUN features that I'm SURE will increase gameplay fun.
Like the :
Ability to JAM YOUR GUN!
Your sniper scope can get misted/dusty
You can't swim.
You can't fire without turning off the safety
You can't fire accurately while standing up
You can't pilot a vehicle because you don't know how
If you try to pilot a vehicle, you must turn on the engine, run a long list of checks, and start off
A RELOADING GAME! YES! GUIDE THE MAGAZINE TOWARDS THE GUN!
Player 1 : Reloading!
Player 2 : I'll cover you
Player 1: DAMN! I MISSED! I HAVE TO TRY AGAIN!
Player 2 : ...
The 'READ A NOVEL' feature : Now, you can even read while you are stuck waiting for some action BECAUSE IT WILL RARELY HAPPEN DUE TO THE
SELFISH RETARDS WHO TAKE THE VEHICLES
Vehicles that DONT respawn
Your vehicle can break down! And since we don't have an engineer, theres nothing you can do about it!
I'm sure EVERYONE will love how much realism these suggestions will add.
I can't even be bothered to go through all the useless suggestions you have made. They ruin gameplay, they make everything boring and they make every game stretch on forever. IN FACT, IF YOU WANT YOUR REALISM, WHY DON'T WE REMOVE :
Your MAP
THE TICKET FEATURE
EVERYTHING ON YOUR HUD
The ability to FLY anything (I MEAN, WHAT? A SOLDIER FLYING A
LITTLEBIRD? HOW UNREALISTIC!)
The ability to choose your class (WHAT KIND OF SOLDIER IS TRAINED AT
EVERYTHING?)
The RESPAWN feature
The bleed feature (WHY BLEED? YOU'RE ALREADY DEAD AFTER 1 SHOT!)
The ability to REPAIR anything
The SUPPLY CRATES
The commander's LAPTOP!
OMG! ONLY 1 AT ROCKET?
In fact, we can even add some incredibly FUN features that I'm SURE will increase gameplay fun.
Like the :
Ability to JAM YOUR GUN!
Your sniper scope can get misted/dusty
You can't swim.
You can't fire without turning off the safety
You can't fire accurately while standing up
You can't pilot a vehicle because you don't know how
If you try to pilot a vehicle, you must turn on the engine, run a long list of checks, and start off
A RELOADING GAME! YES! GUIDE THE MAGAZINE TOWARDS THE GUN!
Player 1 : Reloading!
Player 2 : I'll cover you
Player 1: DAMN! I MISSED! I HAVE TO TRY AGAIN!
Player 2 : ...
The 'READ A NOVEL' feature : Now, you can even read while you are stuck waiting for some action BECAUSE IT WILL RARELY HAPPEN DUE TO THE
SELFISH RETARDS WHO TAKE THE VEHICLES
Vehicles that DONT respawn
Your vehicle can break down! And since we don't have an engineer, theres nothing you can do about it!
I'm sure EVERYONE will love how much realism these suggestions will add.
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Burning Mustache
- Posts: 92
- Joined: 2006-05-15 23:21
The "reloading game" reminds me of Operation Flashpoint actually.
I think they kinda implemented that, in a way.
I ALWAYS felt like the biggest retard when I hit the reload button and my character was fumbling around with his shaky hand NEXT to the magazine, in the fucking air.
(Really, it was just the animations that were broken but it looked SO ridiculous, I still can't believe they left them in).
I think they kinda implemented that, in a way.
I ALWAYS felt like the biggest retard when I hit the reload button and my character was fumbling around with his shaky hand NEXT to the magazine, in the fucking air.
(Really, it was just the animations that were broken but it looked SO ridiculous, I still can't believe they left them in).
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Doedel
- Posts: 192
- Joined: 2005-08-24 02:25
I've always said, model the SAW like the SAW in DC. It was uber-powerful there when on the defensive and in a good position, but was worthless if moving or kneeling and took a few seconds to aim (ie, took a few seconds for the crosshairs to come back together after going from running to prone-aiming).
The problem with the SAW IMO is that currently it is far too accurate when standing/kneeling and aims far too quickly after going prone. Fix those itty-bitty things and it'll be fine.
As far as "Pure Realism" goes, there are plenty of other games out there that are more realistic. But there is a lot of room for more Realism in PR without sacraficing fun-factor.
The problem with the SAW IMO is that currently it is far too accurate when standing/kneeling and aims far too quickly after going prone. Fix those itty-bitty things and it'll be fine.
As far as "Pure Realism" goes, there are plenty of other games out there that are more realistic. But there is a lot of room for more Realism in PR without sacraficing fun-factor.
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fred450
- Posts: 132
- Joined: 2006-05-20 15:37
DRIFTIST, you're missing my point here. The thing is that I have my own idea of which unrealistic features should be left and which shouldn't. For fun sake, obviously. All reallistic stuff you suggested are the exact kind of stuff I don't want because they will frustrate players. C'mon, jamming guns? dusted opac scopes? no swimming? no vehicle piloting? Yeah I'm willing to sacrifice realism to avoid that.
On the other hand, the suggestions I've been making don't harm the fun at all. It's actually fair when a tank has to return to base to be fixed, not by an engeneer in the heat of battle. My God, despite it is way stronger than you, you managed to hit him with a rocket or two. You deserve to get rid of him for a while. So I still think the magic wrench and medkit should be removed. Want to be efficient with a tank? Have one driver and a separate cannon operator, working toghether with voice IP, like the choppers. Give them a better sight of whats around the tank, because tanks actually have cameras to let the crew see outside. Give them a chance to survive by their own efforts, rather than have a lame solution of magical engeneers to balance things up. Enough said.
As for respawning (for both players and vehicles), you and moustache didnt read what I wrote in reply #33. It is realistic and adds to the game. Thus it should stay, maybe with even less respawn time.
On the other hand, the suggestions I've been making don't harm the fun at all. It's actually fair when a tank has to return to base to be fixed, not by an engeneer in the heat of battle. My God, despite it is way stronger than you, you managed to hit him with a rocket or two. You deserve to get rid of him for a while. So I still think the magic wrench and medkit should be removed. Want to be efficient with a tank? Have one driver and a separate cannon operator, working toghether with voice IP, like the choppers. Give them a better sight of whats around the tank, because tanks actually have cameras to let the crew see outside. Give them a chance to survive by their own efforts, rather than have a lame solution of magical engeneers to balance things up. Enough said.
As for respawning (for both players and vehicles), you and moustache didnt read what I wrote in reply #33. It is realistic and adds to the game. Thus it should stay, maybe with even less respawn time.