Remove medic bag for civillians!

[Bringerof_D]

This is Project Reality, not Project Gameplay with a bit of reality. however if PR was focused on today's conflicts, there would constantly need to be changes, PR is set in the near future and thus all rules and conventions apply, and so do the laws of physics. the MEC Faction is not real however it is a convenient portrayal of what it might be if the middle east decided to band together. (also as the other guy said, it was there from vBF2 no point in throwing out something that works.)

this is really going into the old problem of, there's a surgeon and he's selflessly working on any wounded man that comes his way, the defending army finds him working on an enemy troop. Should they shoot him? the answer is no, anyone with medical skills' top priority after self preservation is to preserve the lives of those around him or her regardless of which side of the conflict he or she is on. It is a moral responsibility for these men and women to save anyone.

Also the Geneva convention states that only COMBATANTS may be harmed. terrorists, insurgents ALL fall under this category. a combatant is anyone who FIGHTS, a doctor does NOT fight, there fore not a combatant and there fore is protected under the Geneva convention. Even the Nazis respected medics and priests who walked through hot zones trying to save or performing the last rights for any of the wounded or dead.

so my thought on this is that Civis should not be shot EVER, however i do agree with removing the epipen. BUT in doing so there should be a pickup kit for the insurgents to have a full fledged doctor of somesort with dressings, med bag, and epipens or some other device to do the job of reviving.

[Nemus]

Also the Geneva convention states that only COMBATANTS may be harmed. terrorists, insurgents ALL fall under this category. a combatant is anyone who FIGHTS, a doctor does NOT fight, there fore not a combatant and there fore is protected under the Geneva convention. Even the Nazis respected medics and priests who walked through hot zones trying to save or performing the last rights for any of the wounded or dead.

so my thought on this is that Civis should not be shot EVER,

Also Geneva Convention states that a soldier can defend himself against direct threats.
IRL a medic its not a threat because the wounded is incapable for fight for days,months,years, all life. He maybe fights you in future but its not a direct threat right now.
But in game is ready to fight after some seconds.
When a medic in game heals someone he is arming a gun against you. Not in long future but right now. And because he is not carry a gun that not means he is not a combatant. An enemy unarmed soldier who reloads a cannon is not a combatant? Whats the different when in game someone is reloading enemys health? He can kill you in game in the same time as the cannon. So the medic in game is a direct threat and you can defend yourself.

Of course when he is not healing someone is not a threat.
And its unfair to kill someone who only throw rocks.
So I think we better keep it the way it is now.

[Ace42]

When a medic in game heals someone he is arming a gun against you. Not in long future but right now.

It takes plenty of time for an injured insurgent to heal up to the point where his vision is unbloodied and he can return accurate fire. Plenty of time for you to shoot him square in the head repeatedly while the medic runs out of epi-pens, or have a squad-mate run up and restrain / bean-bag the civilian tending to him. Likewise you can shoot the civ in the foot to force a bleed on him, and while he's panicking and loses the ability to sprint, restrain him.

I can see why civs were supposed to be killable while using medical equipment, but given the current game implementation (insane spawn-times for civs), I don't think it's necessary. Given the other handicaps for INS, it would take a major rework of the civs, even with the spawn time reduced to more manageable levels, for me to consider them justified.

I'd sooner see greater penalties for heavily wounded people (worse blood effects, the 'tear-gas' graphic effect but shaded red, etc) to make them less able to return fire while injured than see additional penalties on civs.

[Tonnie]

Exactly
If a still hostile insurgent had his guts hanging out and a civi was trying to put them back in, you wouldn't shoot the civi.

Well if there is a wounded INS with his guts hanging out you haven't done the job properly have you.

And if you were shooting right the civis would have the heal

[Demonic]

And what are the chances a US medic could save someone near death so they can keep fighting? Sure, they can stabalize someone if they were hit, but if it was bad (bad enough so they can't move, fire, or even look around), then they need a medevac or else that soldier WILL die. However, the game engine has it so the medic can heal any injury as long as the guy isn't completely dead.

Simply, what is wrong about the medic bag? You got APC's, Heli's, and a shorter spawn time than civies. How about you act like US soldiers over there and only fire at those firing at you? If the INS knew you were coming, there would be tons of civilians all over the place. They would be throwing rocks at you, laughing at you, everything short of actually shooting at you. But it doesn't matter. Your goal is to complete your OBJ and defend against ARMED resistance, if there is any. This doesn't mean you can go on a killing spree and shoot those civies throwing a few rocks mocking you....it means your ignore it and focus on your OBJ. In this game, it's finding those caches and taking out armed resistance in your way.

Right, just adding a simple revive for the NATO teams seems unrealistic. I don't see how a civilian would know any better or have the right tools to do any better so basicly the NATO medics should be superior to the insurgent civilians regarding revives and heal.

Secondly what's all this other stuff? I am not complaining about APC's, or Helis or shorter spawn times. I am simply stating it's more realistic for civilians to have bandages than a full medic bag. I never said they should go on a killing spree against civilians. Are you putting words in my mouth?

They are civilian COLLABORATORS. They aren't "stumbling" across everything; they are sympathisers who are co-operating with the Insurgency. That's why they're in the game.

"This guy here's a doctor"
"Great, we could use a doctor in our ranks, those westerns shoot pretty good for a bunch of decadent sinners!"
"Yah, but rather than putting a load of these bandages that all our cell-leaders have into one big bag for him to carry around near our troops, we thought it best to just give him a handful and have him toss them at mortally wounded people he coincidentally walks into as he runs around the streets aimlessly"
"Yes, this truly is a tactic worthy of our God!"

<eyeroll>

In real-life if they are stumbling across the battlefield and they got any sort of medical knowledge and any sort of medical tools and just happen to have it with you as you just happen to be near a battlefield. I call that stumbling. The taliban don't have personal doctors running around with them treating there wounded.

Originally the civilians were added with bandages in earlier patches and it worked out fine. It's was the same game-play and no difference. Because in real-life you wouldn't have around 7-9 doctors running around a hot warzone giving medical aid to insurgents and spotting out enemies for them. That's what your run of the mill average Iraqi civilian does. Helps out the insurgents by allowing them to hide there weapons in there houses. Sometimes even against there will and giving intel to them about NATO positions for money.

A doctor is only focused on treated the wounded and in iraq that is a lot of people. He has no time neither would he do so to just run around with the taliban or a hot battlezone spotting enemy locations and healing the wounded insurgents.

Having the civilians be-able to bandage the insurgents is a far more realistic option. As far as the civilians throwing the bandages at the insurgents. Thats the issue with the BF2 engine, not my idea. Take it up with EA not me.

[Cheditor]

Ok just looking at the posts now are getting repetitve, and soon were going to be straying off topic me thinks, should we all agree that for some strange reason all the insurgency towns have a high population of doctors and that epipens are a future drug that save everyone?

[lucky14]

Yes, we go with the assumptions that the Doctor Collaborater ranks were filled. Frankly, that means 1-2 a game. To be simple, its horrible. No one ever plays them. The Dev's could make it with the squad limitations (1 a squad that has atleast 3 people). Or just tkae the epipens away (face it, it's better to respawn with more ammo)

[Hresvelgr]

Yes, I don't know why INS doctors are a complaint when you're lucky if you even see more than 1 per round, and you can often go several rounds without seeing any collaborators. And when they are there, their effect is virtually nil seeing as if they try to help an insurgent they're immediately shot/blown up by an APC because the penalty is very very minor. So an insurgent is very lucky if he is even healed.

[Threedroogs]

Yes, we go with the assumptions that the Doctor Collaborater ranks were filled. Frankly, that means 1-2 a game. To be simple, its horrible. No one ever plays them. The Dev's could make it with the squad limitations (1 a squad that has atleast 3 people). Or just tkae the epipens away (face it, it's better to respawn with more ammo)

the collaborator is the MOST IMPORTANT member of the insurgency. they're not played very often because they are very hard to play effectively. you also have to have your squad playing as a tight group with a good SL to make the collaborator useful. i will NEVER EVER EVER play insurgency mode without a collaborator, which is why i have pretty much taken on the collaborator duties myself in our striketeam squads. the collaborator keeps the squad together, can get insurgents on any rooftop (absolutely essential for success), and takes away intel points if he's killed. for the record, i die about 1 or 2 times a round as a collaborator. the coalition forces cant shoot you if you dont make yourself a target.

striketeam is now running two squads for insurgency mode (using mumble) with one collaborator for both squads (one collaborator total). seems to work well.

once the ROE bug regarding collaborators is fixed, everything will be good. dont even think about taking away my eppipens or med bag!

[R.J.Travis]

Yes, I don't know why INS doctors are a complaint when you're lucky if you even see more than 1 per round, and you can often go several rounds without seeing any collaborators. And when they are there, their effect is virtually nil seeing as if they try to help an insurgent they're immediately shot/blown up by an APC because the penalty is very very minor. So an insurgent is very lucky if he is even healed.

very very minor?

there harsh as **** killing one unarmed insurgent ruins your full round and hurts your squad heavily I have lost 20k points because of one unarmed insurgent thought it be cool to run right on top of my grenade that I threw at a Armed insurgent knowing he would also die, I was not able to get a my kit and had to fill a new less known roll.

only people that can kill Unarmed Insurgents and not care are APC/Tanks and I feel if a HE round kills a unarmed insurgent tough titty he should have moved out of is cray house made out of stand. (because in game a unarmed insurgent wants to get hit by the heat aoe dmg to die.)

the only other thing they really could do is ban you from the server for 24 hours per unarmed Insurgent shot then the server will be at 15/15 = 30 players.

Lets face it the Unarmed Insurgent is a grief er class that only wants to make people grief kinda sad atm I have only see 1 2 true unarmed Insurgents that tried to not get killed in my life.

There are at lest 20 - 40 noobs trying to get shoot in 4-6 rounds, play the class right stay out of the fire fight.

Oh and this you only see 1 - 2 unarmed Insurgents for rounds over fabrication need to stop I have not gone a round in 0.85 with out 5+ unarmed insurgents I always run into 5-8 in a round or more on the servers I play on.

You cant make people stop shooting you if you keep going into bullets......

[Ace42]

very very minor?

there harsh as **** killing one unarmed insurgent ruins your full round and hurts your squad heavily I have lost 20k points because of one unarmed insurgent thought it be cool to run right on top of my grenade that I threw at a Armed insurgent knowing he would also die, I was not able to get a my kit and had to fill a new less known roll.

20k points mean nothing, the game's not about points, suck it up. As for losing your kit: Don't die; tell your medic to get to you quicker; don't use AoE weaponry around civilians. Seriously, in WoW even my thickest guildies eventually learned not to use AoEs indiscriminately, and you want this game changed so you can? Pfft.

That civ spent plenty of time respawning, a much harsher penalty than you had, so quit whining about your penalty.

only people that can kill Unarmed Insurgents and not care are APC/Tanks

Moh, every single kit has restraints, numbnut. The specialist rifleman also has a bean-bag cannon to take them out at range. In both cases you get a BONUS for taking them out that way on top of the normal bonus for killing. Play properly and you won't ahve a problem.

Lets face it the Unarmed Insurgent is a grief er class that only wants to make people grief

That might've been the case if it wasn't for the fact that it is impossible to "grief" with them. Their respawn penalty is harsher than yours, so it's much easier for you to "grief" them with intentional kills than for them to "grief" you.

There are at lest 20 - 40 noobs trying to get shoot in 4-6 rounds, play the class right stay out of the fire fight.

Two things: One - you're full of shit. There's usually NO civs on the insurgent side. Occasionally someone will spawn as a civ a couple of times and then give up when shot unprovoked while in the middle of nowhere time and time again. 3 spawns in quarter of an hour makes the game unplayable.
Two - play as a collaborator and see what happens to you. No matter how passive and cautiously you play, you WILL get shot at unprovoked while minding your own business far away from any action that might justify killing you.

Oh and this you only see 1 - 2 unarmed Insurgents for rounds over fabrication need to stop I have not gone a round in 0.85 with out 5+ unarmed insurgents I always run into 5-8 in a round or more on the servers I play on.

That's a bare-faced lie, do I really have to join every single populated INS server active at the moment and paste screenshots of the scoreboard to prove you're talking out your backside? Or will you do the decent thing, join a server as INS, look at the scoreboard and go "oh, yah, there's two of them between 32 people. Oh look, they've been shot unprovoked. Oh look, after 15 minutes, 3 deaths, and a lot of time wasted, they've gone regular insurgency!" ?

[Adetter]

I have got answer for my question. It was a bug.
And if nobody has noticed that i said Thread-Is-Dead for 5 sites ago,then its really the time for it.

[lucky14]

Well, it shouldn't be a bug period. And that's what were saying.

[SSG Jay]

Well i see this topic is still open even though it was just a month ago, I just wanted to comment on this.

The insurgents of Iraq are called terrorist by Bush through government conspiracy theorys and things of conspiracies in general. One thing we get the wrong idea about is the word conspiracy, which does not necessary mean it is made up.

"a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group."
" A theory seeking to explain a disputed case or matter as a plot by a secret group or alliance rather than an individual or isolated act."

Neither of these hit the exact defenition but very close.

Now in my opinion the insurgents of iraq are not terrorist, those of afghanistan and the al'queda network are.

Other than that the main point about civilians, medics and insurgents.

I've read all these comments and it just justifies that you have people who don't know half the **** that comes out their mouth.

Insurgents > Yes they are the ones with the AK's and whatever whos firing to kill you.
Civilians > Sometimes are medics who try to heal these wounded insurgents
The US Army/Marine > Are the ones trying to kill the insurgents who are firing at them

But inbetween that and I am saying this by experience so do not try to counter claim on me because I've been there. When a US troop discovers a wounded insurgent, he could of been firing at you just minutes ago, once he becases unstable and is not dead, we do not leave him there to die, we have to patch him up the same as if he was one of our own. Give him medical treatment, tag him up and call in for evac. They may not get to go home but they aren't laid to dry either.
Now I'm sure every person with a combat tour or US military experience knows this while you guys who just dodge bombs from behind your keyboard do not. It is in fact true that you are not allowed to fire upon civilians who are treating wounded insurgents, even in a case where the medic is treating a armed and stationed insurgent. You simply shoot the insurgent and arrest the medic.

[mosinmatt]

Nevermind your squad can keep the "terrorist" down while you run up and ARREST the civvy, giving your team plenty of intel-points. Or bean-bag civvies with the breaching shotgun, that counts as an arrest and confers no penalty to you, AND it gives your team intel-points.

The problem with all that is, that they dont get the scope when they carry the shotgun around
One thing the army players love is using that ACOG as a DM or sniper rifle.

You dont like being punished for killing civilians? Here is a tip. DONT SHOOT THEM!
I play civie more often than most (not often), and i have been chased and arrested ONCE. Every other time it is shoot on sight.
Now the army have SCOPE machine guns. Now we that play insurgents have to deal with SAW gunners sitting 300m away taking everyone out. What do we get? NOT A THING.
Now our rifles are not as accurate as they once were, same with our RPGs. The insurgent weapons have been totally borked, and you complain about being punished for shooting an unarmed civilian?

[R.J.Travis]

That civ spent plenty of time respawning, a much harsher penalty than you had, so quit whining about your penalty.

Moh, every single kit has restraints, numbnut. The specialist rifleman also has a bean-bag cannon to take them out at range. In both cases you get a BONUS for taking them out that way on top of the normal bonus for killing. Play properly and you won't ahve a problem.

ug lol how long does a apc (10m or tank(20m) take to re spawn vs the time needed to request the kit (10m) again.... once again get over your self.

That might've been the case if it wasn't for the fact that it is impossible to "grief" with them. Their respawn penalty is harsher than yours, so it's much easier for you to "grief" them with intentional kills than for them to "grief" you.

If a player join the server and only shoots civis a admin should be request and he should be banned, the civi griefs the shooter for a longer time then 2m

Two things: One - you're full of shit. There's usually NO civs on the insurgent side. Occasionally someone will spawn as a civ a couple of times and then give up when shot unprovoked while in the middle of nowhere time and time again. 3 spawns in quarter of an hour makes the game unplayable.
Two - play as a collaborator and see what happens to you. No matter how passive and cautiously you play, you WILL get shot at unprovoked while minding your own business far away from any action that might justify killing you.

What do you only play in hardcore with all the noobs in PR?

almost every round I play there are civis where ever there is fighting to heal the wounded or to run out and get shot over and over and over.

Only thing around here full of shit is your way of thinking.

Oh and I have played as a Civi in 0.85 guess what i had 0 death and the highest score in the server by 3,000 sad that it was so easy to hid behind the fight and heal people 24/7 and if my healing zone came under any fire I moved easy as pie.

That's a bare-faced lie, do I really have to join every single populated INS server active at the moment and paste screenshots of the scoreboard to prove you're talking out your backside? Or will you do the decent thing, join a server as INS, look at the scoreboard and go "oh, yah, there's two of them between 32 people. Oh look, they've been shot unprovoked. Oh look, after 15 minutes, 3 deaths, and a lot of time wasted, they've gone regular insurgency!" ?

This kinda go as a 2nd reply to the same comment above.

post a full days worth of 3 different insurgent server for every round you will see oh wait theirs almost always more then 3 civis running around some where asked by there sl other are out to get shot and cost coalition Intel you really think 2m is so bad maybe just quit PR over it then.

sorry for the late reply I just moved and was not able to check up on the forums.

[mosinmatt]

post a full days worth of 3 different insurgent server for every round you will see oh wait theirs almost always more then 3 civis running around some where asked by there sl other are out to get shot and cost coalition Intel you really think 2m is so bad maybe just quit PR over it then.

sorry for the late reply I just moved and was not able to check up on the forums.

GASP! 3 civilians! OH NOEZ!
Then post how many medics are on the other side. I have seen frequent whole squads of medics. I am very glad they made it limited.
Fact is, you need to keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

[xXRich07Xx]

That's a bare-faced lie, do I really have to join every single populated INS server active at the moment and paste screenshots of the scoreboard to prove you're talking out your backside? Or will you do the decent thing, join a server as INS, look at the scoreboard and go "oh, yah, there's two of them between 32 people. Oh look, they've been shot unprovoked. Oh look, after 15 minutes, 3 deaths, and a lot of time wasted, they've gone regular insurgency!" ?

There's really no point in talking to Travis, as he makes up stuff on the fly and often comes across as incoherent. He's a very good forum troll.