Un-zoomed LMG

[M4sherman]

Ok last night I cranked up .86 after a 10 D/L (UBER I know) and I noticed the LMG's are ZOOMED! Now this is a slight problem for a few reasons.

1: it no longer takes a spotter to work with the LMG to provide accurate fire, in other words it has become a effective 1 man kit.

2: not as effective at suppressing a large area. in .85 I would always see people using the LMG to keep the enemies heads down while part of the squad moved in and flanked them. now you cant really keep a whole area suppressed unless it is over 200m away..



My suggested fix would be to make the scoped LMG a requested kit and make the Iron sight LMG the spawn kit

But exept for that the kit changes are nice

[Cheditor]

I believe that was one of the main points of the zoom.

[CAS_117]

You understand that riflemen don't need a spotter. Come on.

[Ccharge]

hes got a point. Theres lots of room in that kit. The LMG could have a unzoomed deployed mode for closer range supression.

[CAS_117]

It does. Try pressing 3.

[Dunehunter]

The problem was that from a certain distance onwards, a regular rifleman could easily take out an AR...which is not very realistic

Also, didn't really have that much trouble putting fire on people that were closer...if they get really close, just use undeployed.

[Arnoldio]

nuber 2 got you killed because people dong give a sh*t about suppressing.

[Scot]

I was actually going to suggest this, but slightly different. I think bring back the Iron sight Minimis with the right click AR button, like if you right click on officer it gives you Ironsight/Aimpoint, well the same could be done with the AR Kits. Just a thought.

[mrnothing]

Hope this isn't off topic, but i find the un deployed zoom for the LMG is useless. It should be zoomed 4x for both un-deployed and deployed mode because with the undeployed zoom, its most likely your probably not going to hit anything + the fact that your weapon is full auto. Instead of hitting the target, your bullets will be flying everywhere. Also, its funny how when your either standing up or crouching and you go into the deployed mode and zoom in , your support hand holds the stock and now its like the LMG is invisibly being supported in mid air with your support hand not holding onto the hand guard.

[Spuz36]

I think it is better at suppression than before. City rounds like Muttrah are much slower paced now that people need to take refuge in alleys. But not painfully slow. Basically perfect

[charliegrs]

i think some people dont understand the new undeployed mode. i believe its strictly for CQB {think inside the bunkers in kashan} as its basically firing from the hip and the rounds spray everywhere. which is completely ineffective if used at any kind of range, but if theirs an enemy standing right in front of you hes totally f##ked. if you could only use the scope, in a CQB situation you would be at a severe disadvantage. so really its the best of both worlds.

as far as not being able to suppress larger areas, well thats the cost of having scopes on the lmgs now. people were begging for them forever, now we finally got them and people just cant grasp that there is gonna be some amount of trade off.

[Snazz]

1: it no longer takes a spotter to work with the LMG to provide accurate fire, in other words it has become a effective 1 man kit.

It may require less teamwork (not that I've ever seen anyone spot for a MG) but it is based on reality.

Not saying that realism or teamwork are higher priorities, just that it's a real life change intended to make the individual SAW gunner more effective.

2: not as effective at suppressing a large area. in .85 I would always see people using the LMG to keep the enemies heads down while part of the squad moved in and flanked them. now you cant really keep a whole area suppressed unless it is over 200m away..

Disagree, as you can now use the scope to fire more accurately further away. Plus undeployed mode to kill anything close.

My suggested fix would be to make the scoped LMG a requested kit and make the Iron sight LMG the spawn kit

They're already working on using the unlock system to change scopes/sights on the kit menu, so they might include an option for the LMG.

[Tonnie]

so first everyone wants zoomed and scoped LSW's now they all think its bad and we shouldnt have zoomed LSW's.... Well i think you guys need to understand that IRL the scoped LSW's ARE used and are very effective. I believe as does many of the other Military Advisors believe that its highly realistic and very common in modern conflicts...

[Ragni<RangersPL>]

so first everyone wants zoomed and scoped LSW's now they all think its bad and we shouldnt have zoomed LSW's.

For the record, I never wanted to have a scope on the LMGs


Back on topic...
The option to have unscoped LMG on the spawn menu and scoped as a requestable is an interesting idea

The problem with the current LMGs is it's ability to effectively use deployed mode in any other stances then prone.

[Durkie]

The problem with the current LMGs is it's ability to effectively use deployed mode in any other stances then prone.

deploy mode is for when you are prone then you can set the tripod on the ground

[G.Drew]

Ok, before we continue any further, lets make one thing clear:

Undeployed mode: ideal for CQB mode, range is short, but you weapon is easier to aim and move.

Deployed mode: idea the mid/long range combat, able to take out people at range, problem is it takes longer to aim and harder to wield.

Hope thats clears up a few things.

[BulletFizz]

so first everyone wants zoomed and scoped LSW's now they all think its bad and we shouldnt have zoomed LSW's.... Well i think you guys need to understand that IRL the scoped LSW's ARE used and are very effective. I believe as does many of the other Military Advisors believe that its highly realistic and very common in modern conflicts...

I dont think everyone think its bad, see it like this all the ppl who that think its bad write here everyone else are fine with it. I like, its makes the lmg feared as it should be, and its really fun to play with.

[Dunehunter]

The problem with deployed mode being prone only is that it rules out setting up your gun while looking through a window, that kind of stuff. For example, if you're in one of those buildings on Fallujah where you can take a ladder to get to the roof, you previously had the choice between being horribly exposed but accurate, or in cover but unable to actually hit anything.

[Ragni<RangersPL>]

deploy mode is for when you are prone then you can set the tripod on the ground

O rly? I know what's the purpose of it... no need for reminding

...and BTW.
It's called a bipod and not tripod.



Back on topic:
I don't like to repeat myself but.... The ability to use it in every stance promotes jack in the box behaviour (poping out from behind the cover and hiding). People use it even in CQB, the high deviation doesn't really matter because of the high rate of fire... they have a high chance to suppress and eventually hit the enemy with "lucky shots" in a matter of 2-3 seconds (even before the deviation has settled).

The deployed mode should have higher deviation and recoil with lower accuracy (?) in other stances then prone (which is kind of realistic because there is no ground support in other stances). The accurate and almost "recoiless" way to use deployed mode should be reserved for prone position only. That's how I see it... otherwise what's the point of deploying a bipod? What's the point of having two different fire modes? To have a separate mode for CQB and mid/long range combat? We can as well put deployed and undeployed modes to any other rifle with scope!

Some of you may say "what about situations when you can shoot from behind the wall or window? it's like supporting the weapon on it" (it was already mentioned somewhere)... well, I can say "what about situations when you are standing on an open area without any thing you can use to support the weapon and you can still do the same thing?" Both of us have our own argument and we are stuck in the middle without compromise... As we all know, BF2 engine doesn't support that... it's impossible to support a weapon on something.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that scoped LMGs are bad and should be unscoped... but they are not perfect either. Come on guys, it's a machinegun... it's heavier then the rifle, it has a lot more ammo then a rifle (which weights too), it shoots with high rate of fire that produces a recoil per every round shot... and some OPFOR guy who is behind a small hill 150-200m in front of me stands up and sprays to my face almost with LaZor GuN accuracy in deployed mode while standing....

LMGs were used to suppress the enemy... now are used simply to kill. Before, it required to have a spotter in order to be used effectively and promoted teamwork... now it's almost perfect for lonewolfing. In previous versions of PR automatic rifleman was an addition to the squad, in PR 0.86 I can't get rid of a feeling that the squad is an addition to automatic rifleman...