Remove or Improve insurgency

[amazing_retard]

Wow how can you like the insurgent mode? Everyone is a lone wolf, and there is almost no teamwork. I play PR because I like the teamwork and coordination, and the overall tactical feel that those two give. But people simply don't use teamwork with the insurgents, and PR with no teamwork is boring.... Seriously even on the best servers the insurgent teamwork is pathetic. Playing as an Insurgent SL is like shoving a knife up my arse, I'm not going to do it. Nobody follows your orders, and its almost impossible to keep the squad together! The new civi is simply retarded, reviving people is impossible. IDK about you but walking around with my hands in the air at the speed of a snail, doesn't appeal to me. The new civi is just simply pointless, people just use it to fool around. Even the best civi players are ineffective at the medic role.
Excuse me I'm going to go play AAS, where people actually use teamwork.

[amazing_retard]

this is a trainwreck of a thread. just close it please. insurgency isnt going anywhere.

lol the crippled insurgents who can barely walk, because they are scared of the evil acog rifle is PERFECT!!!
I respect you, but I respectfully disagree with you. The Insurgents in game don't represent their real life counter parts, simply because the insurgents can't hide in the civilian population, as they do in real life. That's the only reason why the insurgents have held out so long in real life. Most of these uber 1337 insurgent players with 21-0 scores, are lone wolfers who go around looking for kills. There is rarely if any squad coordination with the insurgents, and there is simply very little teamwork. Just get in a squad and do what you want. Lame. Thank you DEVS for trying to hard with .86, but the Insurgents are just way to frustrating to play. BTW I can get a positive KDR with the insurgents, I simply don't like the game play. This is a serious problem that needs to be discussed, I don't see why the OP should be deleted.
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[M_Striker]

this is a trainwreck of a thread. just close it please. insurgency isnt going anywhere.

This thread isn't aimed to remove insurgency as much as it is to improve it.

[Vege]

INS squadleaders have the best weapons and first aid, why would someone not want to go SL on INS side.

Beeing a INS SL needs less skill than a normal SL, but it's still a quite important role to coordinate where you defend and where the enemys are. Beeing a SL on INS side is like constantly ordering SM:s to defend a flag, not that meny people do that or know how to.

Be close to your SL and ask those dressings rather than mess with your head about the medics.
If you thing you need reviving constantly your attacking in the wrong places.

[Kapt. Kroon]

Insurgency is my fav. mode. But the only thing they could improve atm is that stupid civilian spawntime. - The usa medic spawntime is normal so why is the civi spawntime so long?

[charliegrs]

This thread isn't aimed to remove insurgency as much as it is to improve it.

ok well aside from people suggesting that civi spawn times be changed {which has been suggested for quite some time now} , i havent heard one suggestion on how to improve insurgency in this thread.

[bkandor]

I think the dev's just finished improving insurgancy mode - remember? The changes were just released 1 day ago - wait and see how they settle out. I like ins. mode better already after only a few rounds.

[Rudd]

I have a couple, thought I actually think insurgency is great atm

1) Apache back on Karbala, don't make it a less good version of Ramiel (no offense to teh mapper)

2) Lynx back to basrah, it increased gameplay options and was a welcome addition when a APC was destroyed leaving a squad stranded, and it was fun trying to ambush it, or stop teh GB setting up LZs.

3) Increase RPG explosion radius, even if damage isn't that much, RPG use should be encouraged for purpose of realism, and also so that Insurgents have to plan ahead to reload their RPGs to avoid caches being discovered.

I'll have a few more once I'd had some coffee

[linkman54]

I have a couple, thought I actually think insurgency is great atm

1) Apache back on Karbala, don't make it a less good version of Ramiel (no offense to teh mapper)

2) Lynx back to basrah, it increased gameplay options and was a welcome addition when a APC was destroyed leaving a squad stranded, and it was fun trying to ambush it, or stop teh GB setting up LZs.

3) Increase RPG explosion radius, even if damage isn't that much, RPG use should be encouraged for purpose of realism, and also so that Insurgents have to plan ahead to reload their RPGs to avoid caches being discovered.

I'll have a few more once I'd had some coffee

1. agreed
2. agreed
3. Disagree, correct me if i'm wrong but, doesnt an RPG work by pushing a concentrated blast of molten metal to destroy. It's not really a big explosion correct?

Now to the topic of the thread. I must agree with the OP. Insurgency was great on .85 IMO. It was not too overbalanced but there was some with the US and it was just the right amount making for enjoyable gameplay. Now in .86, my main issue is not that the ak's dont have scopes or anything like that, its that the accuracy for the ak's and the RPG's were reduced by a significant amount making them cross the line between just the right amount of underbalanced and Way underbalanced when compared to the rifles of the British or the Americans. I do understand the argument that yes the proper solution would be for everyone to work together and ambush, etc,etc, But, in the time I've been playing PR (since .85's release, which I know isn't really that long but still a good amount of time IMO) about 5% of the times i'm in a public server playing insurgency, people work together, as stated before it's Extremely more common for people to just lone wolf and not play in the way that needs to be played, which is unfortunate but unavoidable. Even when I was playing in my own clan's server as insurgents and we were working together, We were still severely underpowered and it detremented the gameplay significantly. Another significant issue which I know has been brought up a million times in a million different threads is that AR which has become way too frustrating. I'm sure you've all already heard the complaints about it so I won't waste my time repeating them. Suffice to say I'm not too happy with their increased range and accuracy. Basically the main point I'm trying to get at is that in my opinion the main upgrades went to the Blufore team that really didn't need them. I know IRL that the insurgents really are underpowered and the Bluefore are overpowered (comparatively) but at some point you have to balance reality and the 'fun' factor because no matter how real it may seem, it's still a game and game's were made to be fun and enjoyable and while the realism is the main attribute that Makes this game fun, there's a very fine line that needs to be watched between Mostly real and fun, or Really real and boring.

Just my 2 cents

[nick20404]

3. Disagree, correct me if i'm wrong but, doesnt an RPG work by pushing a concentrated blast of molten metal to destroy. It's not really a big explosion correct?

Depends on what type of Ammunition the Rpg is using, Not all Rpgs are armor piercing some are high explosive and are designed for infantry.

[Rudd]

It's not really a big explosion correct?

I think the current explosion doesn't take shrapnel in to account, and shrapnel projectile generation may cause lag problems afaik, this the radius should be bigger but not hugely deadly, to portray this.

[Truism]

Just because both sides win roughly the same amount of the time, it doesn't mean the game mode is actually balanced in a good way.

The Insy faction is still pretty messed up since the civvie changes imo.

[RHYS4190]

im suprised this tread did not get locked.

My two cents.


i agree that the insurgency should get bandages at the least, thay may be poorly equiped army but they whould still have bandages whould'ent they there not that poor.

[SXTS]

I like it, the only thing I dislike is the civi, it is COMPLETELY pointless. Seriously, what is the point of having a 3-4 minute spawn time!? The people who kill us should get that, not us! It would be great if we could have large groups of collaborators like in the past. Hardly anyone goes civi now, so I guess there should be some changes, which I think are:

- Reduce spawntime

- Alright, well I'm not sure about if this would change but, the war laws ( or whatever they are called ) order armies not to shoot civilians, and I assume if a soldier was to break a war law, he would recieve a very harsh punishment, of course mistakes happen but seriously, I climbed onto a roof to provide support for my troops of enemy location then the enemies killed them and came round. I proceeded to put my hands up, and they were shouting "GET DOWN OFF THE ROOF" next thing some loser just goes "lol fuck this" and shoots me. This mentality that it is ok to kill a civi should be broken, another example was when a truck of Brits chased me and I took refuge on a roof using grappling hook, I stayed there for ages whilst they requested people with grappling hooks, then someone comes around the corner and I was ready to run in case he had a grappling hook, and he just aims and takes shot, I die. The others just go "wow that is pretty lame but thanks for the help" Seriously I don't know the exact law but some 'army guys' here could inform me about the consequences of killing civilians. There needs to be a much harsher punishment, as in a full insurgency round on a server, I was the only colloborator. Colloborators need to be in large groups and it makes it much more difficult for others.

Example ( this is a joke but you can see with rules like the ones listed here how useful they can be and hard to control )
YouTube - [Project Reality 0.8] - [Operation Collaboration]

- Shot for throwing a rock, or healing the wounded? Well, basically, I think the rule that the army can shoot after we throw a rock should be taken out, and if people complain that they get hit with rocks too much well you could reduce the damage of the rocks ( it's around half their health just now - two hits will get you a kill ) I think we should be able to throw rocks all we want as this will improve the gameplay, for example if you tried to lead an enemy into an ambush you could hit them with a rock and they would chasse you to arrest you, but with the current rules, if we simply throw a rock and get a hit or not, they are able to gun us down. With this rule we can throw rocks till' our hearts content and they are only able to arrest, and if they get pissed and decide to shoot, well that combined with the last rule should make them think again. Also, surely people would have respect for the wounded in real life, like if someone got shot and he took cover in a house, surely they would allow him to rest and respect the fact that it is a person. So why, if we revive/heal a soldier are the other team allowed to kill us? It makes no sense.

( Example: With the rule of being able to throw stones and onyl get arrested, I know this is a stupid video but just you can see how much of a problem a civi can be )
YouTube - Duel: Collaborator VS AntiTank in Al Basarah - Project Reality mod

- Easier identification of civi's. Well since most people seem to be blind when a group of 3 of us walk along the street at snail pace with our arms pushed into the air, I think we need easier idenftification of civi's. Maybe if enemies started to shoot us, we could shout "Don't Shoot!" or something? That way if someone got punished they couldn't complain they didn't know it was a civi and it should stop a lot of deaths.


Summed up
-Reduce spawntime
-Harsher punishments for kills
-Remove feature that enemies are able to kill us if we simply throw a rock or revive/heal a wounded friendly
-Easier identification of civi's.

[CAS_117]

The problem with insurgency is that no one knows what an insurgency is, why it is what it is, and whether or not they actually want it or not. People have no idea what the whole concept of an insurgency is even about, and until people do it will simply be the confused mix of conventional warfare and alterations to the kits.

[Blade]

I think what this thread is saying is basically keep the realism while keeping the fun. As said before (I couldn't have said it better myself by the way), there is a very fine line between realism and enjoyability. After a while, you get so real that it just really isn't fun anymore.

Yes, yes. We get it. Ambush, use close quarters to your advantage, use buildings, hills. We do. But 90% of the time (unless in a league match or something) you will have almost zero teamwork on the insurgent side. Basically, you have a bunch of people running around with their heads blown off, some just camping a spot that nobody goes on with an IED going "durrrrrr mouse1 for boom" and you have the people who will sit on the cache with 5 others waiting for the next special kit to spawn. This means you'll have you, maybe a friend and possibly another sticking together and running around doing things. 3v5 with inferior weapons are not good odds. No matter the context.

Basically keep the realism but also the sense of fun along with it, and insurgency will be fine.

[molotov everything]

yah I have to say insurgency really suffered with the new patch. It's boring and too difficult playing as an INS now. Don't tell me I suck, I've been playing the mod ever since it first came out. It's the fact that now insurgents have even more inaccurate weapons, a hardly effective rpg, even worse civilians, and now they're spawn points are getting camped frequently. Also we are pretty much forced to fight like a conventional army in a way because now we only have 2 or 3 spawn points to spawn from! It was better when there were more when it was much easier to make ambush points and such.

I'd think INS be more fun to play if you guys gave us better spawn protection, more spawn points, lots of more cars to ride in (its hard to believe there would be only 3 or 4 functional cars in a city!) so we don't have to walk everywhere. And finally a useful civilian class that doesn't get punished when he gets killed (like .7). Imo civilians should be the insurgents most powerful weapon if you ask me, just like in real life.

[gazzthompson]

i personally feel more spawns for INS , whether it be RP's or map places (not random, to avoid crashes... but like korengal) spawns, will fix INS . and lower there spawn time to about 10 seconds less than BLUFOR.

[M_Striker]

The problem with insurgency is that no one knows what an insurgency is, why it is what it is, and whether or not they actually want it or not. People have no idea what the whole concept of an insurgency is even about, and until people do it will simply be the confused mix of conventional warfare and alterations to the kits.

do YOU know all these things?

I also like the idea of lower spawn times for the insurgents to make it seem like there are more.

[Spoonman293]

One problem that I see with it is the spawn time of the Civilian. I find that it detours players to do that role in a organized squad.