v: 0.86Dont like the automatic rifleman's primary gun!

[Solid Knight]

The problem is the sniper is limited in usefulness by the visual range of the map, limitations on blending in, and the limited places he can go to engage at maximum range--places people learn to look over time.

Rudd, so you could have knifed three people instead of two?

[ubershank47]

I do believe the LMG kits are excellent now, squads can call in weapon support that is flexible and fast, it makes a great suppression tool that strikes fear into the enemy.

I personally don't think its overpowered if your smart you will find ways around LMGs if they have no one picking targets for them then they have a very narrow view of fire and can't turn very fast when deployed, many times I had my squad outflank LMGs easily most of the time we focus on killing medic and officer at close range because the LMG can't even turn fast enough to engage us without terrible accuracy and if he wanted to fire from the hip he would have to go through the weapon draw animation all over.

One thing I did notice was that the M249 is great in cqb but other LMGs like to jump all over the place.

The oddity that people are firing from a standing deployed position is no problem at all, if you want to survive infantry combat you keep your butt down standing deployed is a invitation to a bullet to the brain, I've seen many people get picked off by my squad easily because they think that standing deployed will give them a better view without having to move, instead they are exposing their chest and head.

[Truism]

The LMG change is the best thing to happen to PR in quite a few versions. PR has been way, way, way too kind to tactically retarded play since 0.6 which had brutal, but somtimes a little unrealistic tactics.

The only reason the LMG seems overpowered is because firstly, the PR community is inexperienced, and machine guns destroy tactically inexperienced fighters - once people learn how to flank we might see some epic battles for fire superiority, but the second reason is because the devs STILL haven't fixed the natural counters to emplaced infantry - the DM and Sniper, who both languish as underdeveloped kits.

The sniper in particular is still completely ridiculous and this fact is a large part of what makes LMGs hard to counter without vastly superior tactics to the squad who's fixed you with fire.

But still, absolutely brilliant change, now we just can't wait for GPMGs >.>

Edit: And LAT, DMR, AR, Medic all CLEARLY need 3 man squads.

[Rudd]

Rudd, so you could have knifed three people instead of two?

I wouldn't have complained at that eventuality. An squad that doesn't notice an AA being built next to them deserves a knife up the bum.

If 3 people were in the squad, they would be more inclined to work together I think.

[mantiX]

The LMG change is the best thing to happen to PR in quite a few versions. PR has been way, way, way too kind to tactically retarded play since 0.6 which had brutal, but somtimes a little unrealistic tactics.

The only reason the LMG seems overpowered is because firstly, the PR community is inexperienced, and machine guns destroy tactically inexperienced fighters - once people learn how to flank we might see some epic battles for fire superiority, but the second reason is because the devs STILL haven't fixed the natural counters to emplaced infantry - the DM and Sniper, who both languish as underdeveloped kits.

The sniper in particular is still completely ridiculous and this fact is a large part of what makes LMGs hard to counter without vastly superior tactics to the squad who's fixed you with fire.

But still, absolutely brilliant change, now we just can't wait for GPMGs >.>

Edit: And LAT, DMR, AR, Medic all CLEARLY need 3 man squads.

If you wanna make a game for only proffesional players. Well expect one full server and no more..
Im not talking about the realistic fire-power.

Im talking about the unrealistic way u shoot it. Make it the way it was suppose to be. Only deployble with prone and maybe while u sit.

[AquaticPenguin]

What I like about mgs is that you actually have to fear them. No standing out in the open, they're still just inaccurate enough to give you a chance though and that's how it should be. Also the new deployed and undeployed modes make it more flexible and really make it feel like a useful weapon.

[unrealalex]

The 8 second deploy time is broken!
I'm able to fire accurately after 2-3 seconds of deploying at any stance.

[[RGG]Firefokker]

I agree that the LMG changes are positive. It encourages proper tactical thinking like properly executed flanking maneuvres, not just blind rushing ahead of which there was far too much in my humble opinion.

It also adds to the realism of a proper firefight: I think you'll find that most participants spend the majority of their time hugging the floor, not playing chicken with whatever is shooting at them. I personally have more fun spending half an hour in trying to crack a well-defended position than storming across the entire map in 5 minutes just to cap some undefended flag or other....

It's also quite sobering to get a hint (well, as close as armchair soliders can get) of what those poor sods in WWI had to face when they went over the top, or why the Wehrmacht's MG42 was known as "Hitler's Lawnmower'...

[Conman51]

I have not played this patch yet as i do not have a working computer that can

BUT i have read ALOT of posts on forums and talked to people about this topic


i thought alot about it and my solution to them being "too powerful" is not change them at all but chnage the amout of them on the field and only limit them to 5 man squads.

Why five man squads?

because those are the REAL infantry squads who REALLY need that kind of fire power. MGs in real life are among groups of people, not just 2 or 3 people. one out of 5 people will have a MG, thats about the limit of 6 MGs per team. Its more realistic than like 1 MG covers as 2 other people flank, with a limit to only 5 or 6 man squads it would be one MG and a rifle cover while 4 other people flank. Much more realistic that way

Also the medic kit should be limited to 4 man squads, but thats a diffrent topic

Side note: ive been thinking of idead on how to eliminate enemy MGs
One tactics that im sure could work is using the smoke from grenade launchers. just pop out for a second or 2 and shoot a smoke at him, if it doesnt force him to move at least he cant see you any more
I see other kits becoming more useful because these "too powerful" machine guns

[mantiX]

I agree that the LMG changes are positive. It encourages proper tactical thinking like properly executed flanking maneuvres, not just blind rushing ahead of which there was far too much in my humble opinion.

It also adds to the realism of a proper firefight: I think you'll find that most participants spend the majority of their time hugging the floor, not playing chicken with whatever is shooting at them. I personally have more fun spending half an hour in trying to crack a well-defended position than storming across the entire map in 5 minutes just to cap some undefended flag or other....

It's also quite sobering to get a hint (well, as close as armchair soliders can get) of what those poor sods in WWI had to face when they went over the top, or why the Wehrmacht's MG42 was known as "Hitler's Lawnmower'...

- The LMG is to damn easy to use.
- It´s unrealistic because of the way u can shoot it without any loss what-so-ever. (Standing in deploy-mod)
- It´s totaly kicks the poor marksmans BUTT.

[gclark03]

They said the same thing about the crossbow and the medieval hand cannon. What did they do? They adapted to it. (Tried, anyway. Failed sometimes, but eventually succeeded.)

[Gracler]

- The LMG is to damn easy to use.
- It´s unrealistic because of the way u can shoot it without any loss what-so-ever. (Standing in deploy-mod)
- It´s totaly kicks the poor marksmans BUTT.

Before the patch the lmg was quite useless for supressing... if a squad of riflemen came in your sight you started firing....maybe wounding 1 but the other one already returned fire and killed you, because he knew that there was only a slight chance that some of the 200 bullets would hit him.

Now its a deadly weapon....when you hear it firing in your direction you wont turn the corner and try to return fire untill you have a 2nd guy supressing him making him turn his field of view.

The fact that he can stand up and fire it acurately is a good addition. If you placed yourself in a bunker with a lmg before you where forced to fire with lousy accuracy... now you can simulate placing the tripod on the wall and make it a fortification with LMG emplacement.
Ofcourse you could stand in the middle of the desert looking like rambo firing accuratly while standing up, but its a good invitation for 3 bullets in the chest.

The LMG vs the Sniper is abit tricky....

In order not to make the lmg a 200 rounds per secound sniper rifle, i think that the first few shots should be abit off target and then you close in on it after 1-2 secounds.

Even though the lmg has a scope it a full auto weapon and the secound you pull the trigger you need to start compensate to not lose aim.
In reality the first few bullets would proberly be strait on target, but then you start going off target because of the recoil, and then force it back on it.

For balance in the game it would proberly be best that the first few bullets are abit inacurate(not much just enough to make the sniper better)...but then you close in real quick (1-2sec) and fire strait on target.

[Solid Knight]

It's not a sniper rifle though. It fires accurately but when you're 400+ meters out and you don't expose your entire body it's still fairly difficult to hit people; especially with the PKM. I think people just make poor use of cover. Most of the people I mow down at 400+ meters are completely or more than half-way exposed.

Perhaps people are just too used to playing with and against inaccurate weapons.

[Conman51]

can some one explain to me the way MGs work weather you can fire from deployed unscoped

i thought i knew how it works...you can move and shoot while deployed and scoped, but i saw a guy in a vid firing in deployed mode but nit scoped in, and he was doing quite well even at close range in deployed mode scoped in


heres the vid
YouTube - PROJECT REALITY 0 86 M249 with ELCAN SCOPE ....THE DEBATE IS OPEN !

i think in the whole vid he was deployed and he used it really well