Sniper Accuaracy

[Jigsaw]

Why don't you just use your pistol? Pistol is lethal in CQB, im sure many people here can testify to that fact.

[xXRich07Xx]

This is not Counterstrike. Go back to CS:S if you want to no scope people. I'm not one for that kind of nonsense.

[Psyko]

imo the sniper kit shouldnt be in PR. ( im not going off topic, i have a point here)

masaq suggests always having a spotter. where, you shouldbt be allocating team resources to a miniscual squad who likes to lock themselves in to have a circle jerk and not do any practical damage or even relay messages. i been playin PR a long time now, and i can honustly say that maintaining this unrealistic kit is just a waste of time and resources. jeez, even chuc made new reload animations for it...whats going on, are you going to make it realisic or not? choose one or the other...

so either give the guy nice, tight grouping while standing and hip-firing, or get rid of the stupid thing. everyone else who doesnt regularly use the sniper kit hates the damn thing!

/rant

[snooggums]

Really? I love a sniper squad that has the SL as spotter because they:

Get to a vantage point where they see large areas of the map. The SL can laz targets, give reports on enemy movements, cover advancing soldiers by having his gunner hit defenders so they look for snipers instead of incoming ground infantry, call in artillery/JDAMs and report enemy construction.

Sure sniper squads are often 1337 non-teamworking annoyances, but when they are helpful they are VERY helpful.

[Psyko]

Really? I love a sniper squad that has the SL as spotter because they:

Get to a vantage point where they see large areas of the map. The SL can laz targets, give reports on enemy movements, cover advancing soldiers by having his gunner hit defenders so they look for snipers instead of incoming ground infantry, call in artillery/JDAMs and report enemy construction.

Sure sniper squads are often 1337 non-teamworking annoyances, but when they are helpful they are VERY helpful.

think about that though...which maps are we talking about? kashan and Muttrah, maybe Qinling. most servers only have that once or twice in a very large map rotation. in short, people mostly are playing on maps where sniper squads are not needed. What about, Sunset city, Quai River, pretty much all the other Chinese maps? i have never seen sniper squads even appear on the top of the end round scoreboard.

[snooggums]

They don't have to be the top of the scoreboard to be effective (and a two man team working from a distance will not be the top of the scoreboard because there's only two of them). Spotting and relaying information gives no points but really helps the team.

Korengal benefits immensely from a sniper team as does Operation Archer. Easier to find caches with a good spotter in the mountains watching for movements.

[nick20404]

If you know how to properly fire the weapons in PR the sniper is very accurate, I can hit a target on the edge of view range standing up while they are running, seems accurate enough for me.

[Psyko]

They don't have to be the top of the scoreboard to be effective (and a two man team working from a distance will not be the top of the scoreboard because there's only two of them). Spotting and relaying information gives no points but really helps the team.

Korengal benefits immensely from a sniper team as does Operation Archer. Easier to find caches with a good spotter in the mountains watching for movements.

im sorry, but i disagree with everything you just said there...

Firstly, on pubbie games...there is never two of them. and while the facility to have a spotter is there, it is rarely utilised. and no, korengal, has never needed a sniper, its just fun to reenact liveleak videos with the M249 and the M24 or whatever. why do i say that? because you cant see caches with a scope, the foliage is too dense, you gotta go plodding around on foot with a squad to detarmain what direction the fires coming from. thats how its always been. im gonna leave my agrument here, cus its in the wrong place, and i dont want to get this guy's thread locked. its nothin personal snoogums, i just have a adverse opinion to snipers.

[M.Warren]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Masaq;1062015']1) You shouldn't be sniping by yourself; your observer should have popped the guy in the back of the head for you.[/quote]

Time and time again I hear this statement. In reality, Snipers and Spotter train together and go to battle together. They rely on each other for carrying necessary items to remain out in the field for days or even weeks. Being out and alone in the middle of nowhere is never adviseable. If you're alone, then something very bad happened to your partner. Thus, you're left to bring back the news. Having two people increases longevity as it helps both team members maintain a mental focus and a strong bond to survive.

In Project Reality, it's a completely different scenario.

1.) Having a spotter with a Sniper generally consumes manpower from the team with little gain... That is unless you really really know what you're doing.

2.) Most players acting as Spotters do not have enough experience, mental focus or self control to prevent themselves from firing at an enemy when they feel threatened. It's pretty clear that your nut-job spotter firing away at the enemy when you're within 5 meters next to him is obviously going to draw fire to you as well. His actions could potentially effect your chance of survival. In other words, if you're on a public server and you've never known the guy in your squad before hand... Expect some potentially bad results.

3.) Most people who have played PR know how to land a jet aircraft before they ever learn cooperate professionally as a Sniper or Spotter properly.

4.) People who want to act as a Spotter in a Sniper team are either one of two things:
A. A player that wants to help you but otherwise has no idea what the heck they're doing. (95% of players)
B. A player that normally acts as a Sniper who wants to try filling the rare role of a Spotter. (5% of players)
5.) Project Reality (to the best of my knowledge) has never made an attempt to make an official Spotter kit in any of it's builds. If they wanted to (considering that the infantry department is the most updated and supported feature of PR) it would have been done a long time ago. Despite what players may say or what the PR Tips claim in your loading screen... They say one thing but mean another. --- Work alone till you know what you're doing. How can you save your sniper/spotter if you can't save yourself?

6.) Project Reality has removed the Spec Ops kit which was the only kit that had a Grappling Hook and a G.T.L.D. available. Both of these items are critical for acting as a Spotter. Once again, proving that little effort or care for Spotters in PR exist. --- Isn't it great though? The Spec Ops kit was available for those who wanted to use it. But now that it's gone, players have been forced to improvise as the Combat Engineer kit has become the new Spec Ops kit due to the available C4... So much for building things; yet another fantastic moment of evaluation. But I digress.

[quote="Psykogundam""]imo the sniper kit shouldnt be in PR. ( im not going off topic, i have a point here)[/quote]

I'm not trying to boast, but it seems you've never been on a server with me as a Sniper. I wish I could have someone vouch for me who has played on TG as a Commander with me as a Forward Observer. Everytime I've ever played with a team that isn't acting like a bunch of tards and has a skilled Commander present, time and time again I go the extent to identify and locate enemy threats for the team and also lase targets for aircraft. Even if a Commander isn't present I take my time to type in accurate messages through team chat. My role at pulling the trigger has almost always came second in normal circumstances.

There was a time where I had been playing on Karbala and was positioned in an area that was quiet. Turns out that several minutes later after patiently waiting a cache had appeared in the area. I had taken out atleast two RPG insurgents that were about to harass a Stryker in the area and also had a mortar call that took out a cache. I think I did my role.

masaq suggests always having a spotter. where, you shouldbt be allocating team resources to a miniscual squad who likes to lock themselves in to have a circle jerk and not do any practical damage or even relay messages. i been playin PR a long time now, and i can honustly say that maintaining this unrealistic kit is just a waste of time and resources. jeez, even chuc made new reload animations for it...whats going on, are you going to make it realisic or not? choose one or the other...

so either give the guy nice, tight grouping while standing and hip-firing, or get rid of the stupid thing. everyone else who doesnt regularly use the sniper kit hates the damn thing!

I'll agree that in most scenarios, to have a Sniper and Spotter working together is not an efficient use of manpower. A Sniper is now well equipped as of v0.86 to operate alone. Only thing most players have to do is to get into the habit of typing or VOIPing more often before he pulls the trigger.

I feel that a Sniper in most cases should operate alone on maps with a significant view distance and a sufficient amount of concealment and foliage such as "Kashan Desert" and "The Battle for Qinling" just to name a few. The only time where you should operate with a Spotter is maps with short view distances and moderate to heavy density of urban environments such as "Ramiel", "Qwai River" and "Ejod Desert". Having a Spotter available with a Grappling hook is quite valuable in an urban environment. But in most cases, you can still manage working alone as a Sniper without a Spotter. It depends if you want to take it up a notch and can manage to have a Spotter around you without getting you killed in the process.

I still find it amusing how an ancient ironsight bolt action Lee-Enfield rifle given to Taliban Medics probably has more short and medium range accuracy than the most modern M24 or M40 has even with an attached scope.

________________________________________

Anyways... People may look down on Sniping, but it has become an activity of interest for me as time goes on. There's a certain level of intensity you feel from it as you become better at it. I've had my fair share of operating armored vehicles, commanding, piloting and leading squads but nothing comes close to when you really know what you're doing.

There is absolutely nothing else out there in PR that gives me such a thrill as acting as a Sniper and Forward Observer. Somehow it highlights intense feelings of emotion and ability. Such as Adrenaline, Fear, Intelligence, Skill, Stealth, and Euphoria in it's own way. There's nothing like it.

I've had the thrill of kills over 700 meters. I've lased enemy tanks for destruction and bombs landed 75-50 meters away from me and still lived to go on. I've been chased by a squad and eluded being killed. I've crawled through dense fields to escape the passing of enemy squads and never was detected. I've killed a man with a pistol who's walked within 5-10 meters of me and had no idea I was there.

It's the dirtiest and most personal fighting you'll ever see. The learning curve is harsh and it's not surprising to me why most people fall short of survival. Don't expect to be a Sniper until you've played as a Squad Leader and a Commander and understand the movement of friendly and enemy forces. Because when you are acting of a Sniper, you must be firmly aware of your options. You must anticipate the actions of your enemies. You must also be aware of the front line system. You must also have judgment in knowing when to remain calm and stay still, and there are times when you must know to run. It's practically a game within the game. Simply phenomenal.

[snooggums]

Re: psychogundam

Your opinion blinds you to their usefulness.

On Korengal/Archer the spotter/sniper can look for troop movement as they are not always in cover, a lot of people coming from one area can narrow down the location. Snipers looking in the right area can see tracer fire and determine a location, and if another squad asks for the person to look at a particular area the sniper will know where to be looking.

This of course requires more than pub level play, but if we determine things by pub level play we will just fall back to vanilla anyway.

[Scot]

M.Warren, I completely agree, when you get a decent sniper, it is near enough one of the most effective assets on a team if used correctly. Unfortunately, that is 1 time out of about 20 in my time in playing PR. Sucks, but it's true.

[M.Warren]

Exactly Scot, It's all a matter of knowing what to do and when to do it. The situation Snipers and Spotters may get into is quite extreme. You're almost always outnumbered and you have little to defend yourself with.

Concealment, subtlety and situational awareness isn't something that comes with the kit that was requested; it has to be learned and earned the hard way. The Sniper kit becomes an extension of your own ability's and mentality. Players may learn one day that the kit doesn't fit you. You must fit the kit.

[Scot]

But in reference to this suggestion, the sniper accuracy is completely fine. Learn to play sniper, or be like the rest of us poor sods and just go normal rifleman