.86 Project Reality taking a fall?

[Psyko]

Psykogundam, last I checked this server is not in North Korea. And so far I haven't seen anyone calling PR full of shit, which it clearly is not. These are rather worried opinions about the development path which might, or might not be justified to say out loud.

like i said, it was mearly my opinion that the thread be locked
personally i dont see what the big deal is, the game dynamics are always changing, and eventually the playerbase does too, and in a good way too. You might appresiate my feelings when it feels as though people want to burn the house down without hesitation. when clearly...they should hesitate

[MrSh@vid]

The changes have been made, they may be difficult to counter now, LMG's can rip squad's apart in seconds, but eventually people will adapt in order to survive, it's what the human race is good at.

[Tim270]

Qwai kinda sucks now imo, its not that bad, but anybody who knows how to use the tow is going to decimate the PLA team. Qwai was a good example of slow and heavy vs fast and light, all about rushing and good flag deployment, China now rarely has any apcs supporting the Inf.

[Twisted Helix]

Dunno what the fuss is all about. LMGs and GPMGs can and do command a battlefield in real life, both with range, accuracy and firepower (in real life you have advanced targeting systems where you don't even need to see the enemy, just have to have a locstat of their position).

They have to be flanked ... direct approach is suicide. We learned that one in the first world war ....

[M.Warren]

On Qwai river their are no little birds, just infantry and APC's. And the APC's the Chinese gunners always get shot out. I know you can hit "C" key to crouch, but that is 100% bullshit, because the stryker gunner doesn't even have to duck down.

I understand. It's not the greatest piece of modern technology is it? Ever since the removal of the Littlebirds in Qwai River, it has made it's debut somewhat redundant. I mean honestly, between 3x WZ551 and 3x WZ551A which is a total of 6 APC's, how much transport does the Chinese team need on a 2km map? Let alone the fact if any infantry squad would trust getting into an APC with a TOW Hummer driving around.

It's quite simple, leave it at main base. It's not worth risking the tickets for the team when you can take those same two people to crew it and instead make a squad dedicated to the use of Heavy Anti-Tank. Which could, blow away all Strykers and TOW hummers. Not only that, but you'll be able to protect your teams assets and infantry in the process. The WZ551A is a liability so just use the WZ551 version, and when the 25mm version isn't available just have the restraint to leave the rest at main base and await for your APC to respawn.

Next, the AR kits have scopes in which you can zoom and pick off targets about 600+ yards away.

Yep, it's clearly going to need work. But the issue is that the team has already put scopes on the SAW's and changed their role from "Sweeping Suppressive fire" to "Focused Point Suppressive Fire". To revert back to days before the Scoped LMG's existed will never happen. So we're already committed to gameplay that may or may not work. We shall see in the future how this works out.

I hope it works, because if it doesn't work we're going to have a very... Very... Hard time thinking of a new way to go about this through the BF2 engine.

The littlebirds on Qwai River really made that map fun/interesting/entertaining...

Yep, times do change... What pours salt into the wounds is that the U.S. Stryker isn't amphibious like the Chinese IFV's. So once again, the U.S. team is at a double loss. So they really don't have any alternative methods to cross the river now other than using what was provided by the map as they cannot rely on vehicles. Sad times.

Having served in the U.S.A.F. I am quite sure of what is reality and what is not. So i do not expect to see any posts "You need to learn how to flank" "You need to learn tactics" our military does not train us to sit on our asses. I am sick of these negative comments.

Sounds like a concerned man very much like myself.

We always get a huge influx of new members fresh of the noob bus from vBF2

It is true that we have a large amount of new players appear from vBF2 to PR at about every release. What's upsetting is these details:

1. Often the "PR is not for everyone so if it doesn't work for you, you can go back to Vanilla." explantion is used to solve a number of problems.
2. Some players legitimately enjoy PR, but are hoping for a more specific gaming style that is otherwise outright opposed by PR because it has been previously explored or hasn't been explored yet.
3. Some players legitimately enjoy PR, but are waiting to see a rebound to it's earlier days where tactics and teamwork fueled the mod to the height it has become today despite it's shortage of resources at that time.
4. Some players truly enjoy PR in it's current ways and love everything about it. They think it's practically flawless and the best thing since sliced bread.
5. Some players praise PR for it's accomplishments, but at the same time they haven't played long enough to understand all the good ideas that were removed from PR. Additionally, these same players haven't analyzed PR enough to try and offer it improvement either. In other words, they're screaming fangirls.

Your points, and the points of all members posting across the forums are noted, but for every person who hates a change, there are those who love it.

Then again, any gameplay dynamics that have managed to survive PR's conquest at this point is suprising. Because everything that was added into PR that was along the lines of "Hey, that's a good idea." has now become "Humm... That good idea last build was really enjoyable. But seeing as we've changed gameplay dynamics again, we're going to have to remove it." and proceeds to annoy the players that supported it which is very upsetting to me, but it happens anyway.

So time and time again, PR has introduced a type of game play at one point in the mod. About one to two builds later it is removed and left unfilled, or it is replaced by a "newer" and not always "better" solution. Thus, at times it's not suprising to me why I see so many people become upset that they had supported PR and invited their friends to the mod, just so by the next build can essentially feel "left for dead" (for the lack of a more suitable expression) in a way .

But then there are always the people who love the new over the old but everyone is different. Kind of like how old-schoolers like their Ford Mustangs, and the new-schoolers like their souped up Honda Civics.

PR is committed to new progression on every release by adding new content and removing or reforming the old methods. Thus those "old-school Ford Mustang lovers" get left in the dust. What I find most amusing about PR is this:

...
v0.5 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.6.
v0.6 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.7.
v0.7 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.75.
v0.75 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.8.
v0.8 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.85.
v0.85 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.86.
v0.86 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.?

One day PR's going to change something that you've enjoyed all along. If it hasn't yet, you're either lucky or you had just installed the mod.

But those removing those RUINED PR, and everyone stopped playing, and we didnt take second two years in a row followed by first in the Mod of the Year competition!

Unforgivable DEVs, unforgivable!!! rise up! TO FIGHT!

Truth is that PR itself will never be "Ruined". Only the released build in question will be "Ruined". That is until the next build comes out 6 months later and fixes the "Ruined" content in the first place.

Additionally, the PR team members are quite good at their gaming politics. What better way to raise interest in a mod then to announce the release of a new build/patch around January 1st before anyone gets to play a single round of it? But! Also coincidentally enough at the same time before the new build/patch is ever released, the MOD DB contest is already taking place or has taken place and decided the winner? Hmm...

Anyways, I feel the height of PR was in v0.7 when the Commander and Squad Leaders had the greatest amount of functionality. Commanders were just given the JDAM and they still could request Air Dropped supplies via a parachute (which is still pretty damn cool to this day).

Not only that, but people regularly played as the Commander and SL's could manually send a "Enemy Tank spotted" "Enemy Infantry spotted" "Enemy Bunker Spotted" etc. marker to the commander through a Commo Rose interface. Which was later replaced by the "Contact Report" ability which sends the request to the Commander and he then instead figures out what you are spotting instead of you (as the SL) in particular.

So although I'm upset that things may never be the same again. I'm happy to at least have the peace of mind to know what build of PR I loved the most and had the greatest about of enjoyment for me. Although PR version v0.7 suffered major issues with Deviation, the rest of the game operated fantastically in teamwork and also still reflected gameplay in a manner similar to the most recent builds up to v0.86 in particular. It was also the same version that APC and SL spawnpoints were removed and the minimap was also gone by then.

If we could take all the worthwhile gameplay highlights of v0.7 and took all the worthwhile gameplay highlights and improvements leading up to v0.86 and put them together... We'd have a pretty kickass mod.

OkitaMakoto;1063115']Seriously, gazz has a point. Every big change whether its SL spawn, APC spawn, minimap removal, deviation, or ACOGs on SAW's was/is met with some who hate it... but we all eventually get used to it[or stop complaining so much ]

You see, PR in the past had a truly defined and legitimate approach on removing the SL and APC spawn points, and minimap removal.

Why? Because it is completely clear that in reality you can't spawn 5 of your best friends at the party you just got to (that is until you've set up an RP next to the beer keg). Nor can you have 32 players constantly walk out of the back of an APC like an endless funnel of troops. Additionally the minimap was a harsh but agreeable change along with the "auto spotting" system. It helped gameplay to a more realistic level.

But PR has overcome most of it's major hurdles by now. The game is pretty much set to where it needs to be for the most part. Now it's a matter of add, modify, adapt and remove mentality for a number of smaller details. But the problem with this is that the large majority of details being changed in PR in it's most recent releases are in a sense of "tomato-tomatoe and potato-potatoe".

I just get a laugh because everyone claims that PR v0.86 is the "way it's meant to be" because the developers wanted it that way. I guarantee that about 6 months from now it'll be changed again in some manner making the statements that were just made in defense of the v0.86 build completely invalid.

And I guarantee after all that I had just stated above and attempted to prove to be legitimate will still attract the nay-saying PR worshipers. And for the record, I do enjoy PR very much so as it is the only acceptable realism mod out there for most people.

Despite my harsh criticisms I'm trying to prove a point. There's 3 different ways you can go about PR. It's either:

1. You love PR.
2. You hate PR.
3. You have enough foreseeability to know the difference between the two and try to make things the right way as they should have been.

[Zi8]

The littlebirds on Qwai River really made that map fun/interesting/entertaining... But now, it is pretty much infantry. This map feels to me EXACLY like Operation Ghost Train or Bi Ming. When i see Qwai River on i leave and go to a different server. There is no point in playing a map that is in PR in 2 other places. Qwai River, Operation Ghost Train, and Bi Ming are basically the same map.

And which is brilliant! All these 3 maps rock

No more lame elitepilots screwing around in Qwai and crashing the choppers. I'm very happy about that and now we can concentrate on fighting.

But Tad Sae is still unplayable

[Matrox]

I understand. It's not the greatest piece of modern technology is it? Ever since the removal of the Littlebirds in Qwai River, it has made it's debut somewhat redundant. I mean honestly, between 3x WZ551 and 3x WZ551A which is a total of 6 APC's, how much transport does the Chinese team need on a 2km map? Let alone the fact if any infantry squad would trust getting into an APC with a TOW Hummer driving around.

It's quite simple, leave it at main base. It's not worth risking the tickets for the team when you can take those same two people to crew it and instead make a squad dedicated to the use of Heavy Anti-Tank. Which could, blow away all Strykers and TOW hummers. Not only that, but you'll be able to protect your teams assets and infantry in the process. The WZ551A is a liability so just use the WZ551 version, and when the 25mm version isn't available just have the restraint to leave the rest at main base and await for your APC to respawn.



Yep, it's clearly going to need work. But the issue is that the team has already put scopes on the SAW's and changed their role from "Sweeping Suppressive fire" to "Focused Point Suppressive Fire". To revert back to days before the Scoped LMG's existed will never happen. So we're already committed to gameplay that may or may not work. We shall see in the future how this works out.

I hope it works, because if it doesn't work we're going to have a very... Very... Hard time thinking of a new way to go about this through the BF2 engine.



Yep, times do change... What pours salt into the wounds is that the U.S. Stryker isn't amphibious like the Chinese IFV's. So once again, the U.S. team is at a double loss. So they really don't have any alternative methods to cross the river now other than using what was provided by the map as they cannot rely on vehicles. Sad times.



Sounds like a concerned man very much like myself.



It is true that we have a large amount of new players appear from vBF2 to PR at about every release. What's upsetting is these details:

1. Often the "PR is not for everyone so if it doesn't work for you, you can go back to Vanilla." explantion is used to solve a number of problems.
2. Some players legitimately enjoy PR, but are hoping for a more specific gaming style that is otherwise outright opposed by PR because it has been previously explored or hasn't been explored yet.
3. Some players legitimately enjoy PR, but are waiting to see a rebound to it's earlier days where tactics and teamwork fueled the mod to the height it has become today despite it's shortage of resources at that time.
4. Some players truly enjoy PR in it's current ways and love everything about it. They think it's practically flawless and the best thing since sliced bread.
5. Some players praise PR for it's accomplishments, but at the same time they haven't played long enough to understand all the good ideas that were removed from PR. Additionally, these same players haven't analyzed PR enough to try and offer it improvement either. In other words, they're screaming fangirls.

Then again, any gameplay dynamics that have managed to survive PR's conquest at this point is suprising. Because everything that was added into PR that was along the lines of "Hey, that's a good idea." has now become "Humm... That good idea last build was really enjoyable. But seeing as we've changed gameplay dynamics again, we're going to have to remove it." and proceeds to annoy the players that supported it which is very upsetting to me, but it happens anyway.

So time and time again, PR has introduced a type of game play at one point in the mod. About one to two builds later it is removed and left unfilled, or it is replaced by a "newer" and not always "better" solution. Thus, at times it's not suprising to me why I see so many people become upset that they had supported PR and invited their friends to the mod, just so by the next build can essentially feel "left for dead" (for the lack of a more suitable expression) in a way .

But then there are always the people who love the new over the old but everyone is different. Kind of like how old-schoolers like their Ford Mustangs, and the new-schoolers like their souped up Honda Civics.

PR is committed to new progression on every release by adding new content and removing or reforming the old methods. Thus those "old-school Ford Mustang lovers" get left in the dust. What I find most amusing about PR is this:

...
v0.5 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.6.
v0.6 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.7.
v0.7 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.75.
v0.75 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.8.
v0.8 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.85.
v0.85 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.86.
v0.86 is old and obsolete. We've upgraded to v0.?

One day PR's going to change something that you've enjoyed all along. If it hasn't yet, you're either lucky or you had just installed the mod.



Truth is that PR itself will never be "Ruined". Only the released build in question will be "Ruined". That is until the next build comes out 6 months later and fixes the "Ruined" content in the first place.

Additionally, the PR team members are quite good at their gaming politics. What better way to raise interest in a mod then to announce the release of a new build/patch around January 1st before anyone gets to play a single round of it? But! Also coincidentally enough at the same time before the new build/patch is ever released, the MOD DB contest is already taking place or has taken place and decided the winner? Hmm...

Anyways, I feel the height of PR was in v0.7 when the Commander and Squad Leaders had the greatest amount of functionality. Commanders were just given the JDAM and they still could request Air Dropped supplies via a parachute (which is still pretty damn cool to this day).

Not only that, but people regularly played as the Commander and SL's could manually send a "Enemy Tank spotted" "Enemy Infantry spotted" "Enemy Bunker Spotted" etc. marker to the commander through a Commo Rose interface. Which was later replaced by the "Contact Report" ability which sends the request to the Commander and he then instead figures out what you are spotting instead of you (as the SL) in particular.

So although I'm upset that things may never be the same again. I'm happy to at least have the peace of mind to know what build of PR I loved the most and had the greatest about of enjoyment for me. Although PR version v0.7 suffered major issues with Deviation, the rest of the game operated fantastically in teamwork and also still reflected gameplay in a manner similar to the most recent builds up to v0.86 in particular. It was also the same version that APC and SL spawnpoints were removed and the minimap was also gone by then.

If we could take all the worthwhile gameplay highlights of v0.7 and took all the worthwhile gameplay highlights and improvements leading up to v0.86 and put them together... We'd have a pretty kickass mod.



You see, PR in the past had a truly defined and legitimate approach on removing the SL and APC spawn points, and minimap removal.

Why? Because it is completely clear that in reality you can't spawn 5 of your best friends at the party you just got to (that is until you've set up an RP next to the beer keg). Nor can you have 32 players constantly walk out of the back of an APC like an endless funnel of troops. Additionally the minimap was a harsh but agreeable change along with the "auto spotting" system. It helped gameplay to a more realistic level.

But PR has overcome most of it's major hurdles by now. The game is pretty much set to where it needs to be for the most part. Now it's a matter of add, modify, adapt and remove mentality for a number of smaller details. But the problem with this is that the large majority of details being changed in PR in it's most recent releases are in a sense of "tomato-tomatoe and potato-potatoe".

I just get a laugh because everyone claims that PR v0.86 is the "way it's meant to be" because the developers wanted it that way. I guarantee that about 6 months from now it'll be changed again in some manner making the statements that were just made in defense of the v0.86 build completely invalid.

And I guarantee after all that I had just stated above and attempted to prove to be legitimate will still attract the nay-saying PR worshipers. And for the record, I do enjoy PR very much so as it is the only acceptable realism mod out there for most people.

Despite my harsh criticisms I'm trying to prove a point. There's 3 different ways you can go about PR. It's either:

1. You love PR.
2. You hate PR.
3. You have enough foreseeability to know the difference between the two and try to make things the right way as they should have been.

[OkitaMakoto]

lol, the exact reason I literally COULD NOT force myself to respond. I want to, but just cant be asked

<3
Okita

[McBumLuv]

to be honest i think we should wait few mouths before commenting on current changes, when officer spawn was removed the community cried, when minimap was removed the community cried. but now everyone is used to it.

Yup, pretty much why I haven't posted much at al in threads like this. From the games I've played, I've really enjoyed this. I haven't played Qwai yet, but I can say that I'm not as upset about the thought of taking away those dear assets as I once was.

But, otherwise, I can't comment on what I see on the forums about the game, we should only be commenting on what we've seen in the game ourselves. Which is wierd why all these threads have popped up less than a few days after the release, considering I've only managed to play about 5 to 7 games myself.

And Zi8, how does Tad Sae still fail? The only problem with it was the ginourmous flag bleed, but aside from that it was amazing.

[TY2D2]

I read Warren's post, and I agree with him 100%.

Ever since the big obvious changes all this tinkering has just made playing more difficult, not more fun. Difficult doesn't=realism. And parts of the mod just get more boring and frustrating with each patch, and less fun and eventful.

Also, removing the LBs on Qwai? I don't know who's idea this was but that is just the stupidest adaptation PR's ever made in all my time playing, since .2. The map was basically perfectly balanced, it was fun, a fan fave, I don't think I have ever heard a complaint about it, honestly. I am sure there will be plenty to hear from now that they are gone though... whatever.

Qwai River was maybe my favorite map, it was so diverse and rewarding to play. Now its just another boring ground battle. It was unique before, and it worked, now that is all gone. Hopefully the community organizes an original Qwai battle soon or something.

[RHYS4190]

Spartan sais he was in the USAF, can we have some proof and credential’s some thing to back up your word,


And as for the saw being able to put fire down at long range shots at 1000m or beyond just does not should right that a 5.62 round could go that far, it a very tiny bullet and it does not have a very long range i don't see how it could go that far.

And as for being able to kill a whole squad crossing the street at 500m's yes that sounds possible to pull of in real life, the optimal range of the 5.62 is 300 meters and extends well into 600 meters , it sounds plausible.

But the simple fact of the matter is we don't know for sure and there is now one who could run some tests on the SAW and find out for sure what it effective range is how effective it really is, how a large is the grouping extra. all we got is some very varied and unreliable information on the internet and most of it complete bull shit.

criet id love to do some test my self and see with my own eyes and get accurate reliable data on the SAW and establish the facts of this matter for certain but it impossible in this country, for example It illegal to even own a BBgun in this country (we have a very fascist government), i think if i tried to get a saw here i would be immediately classified as a terrorist and then shipped of to duckow

[AquaticPenguin]

Snipers main role is reconnasance and secondary objective is taking out targets. If you're getting shot by an MG you're not hiding yourself well enough. If you do it correctly, opfor should find it extremely difficult to work out where you're firing from and you should be relocating more often. I had a fun match as a grunt during 0.8 where I managed to take out 4 or 5 people on my own by taking a few shots to keep them in hiding and constantly circling around their position. And if I can do that with a normal rifle it should be fairly easy to do with a sniper at longer distances.

0.86 isn't taking a fall... People are just scared of change.

[herbanator3]

Now I have no more chances of getting epic heli rides on Qwai with Scoth... oh well, i played Qwai the other day and it didn't seem *too* bad... other than the fact that the helis were gone.

Its like Government.. you just can't simply please everywhere

[Rhino]

And the APC's the Chinese gunners always get shot out. I know you can hit "C" key to crouch, but that is 100% bullshit, because the stryker gunner doesn't even have to duck down.

not really, if it sticks with infantry or the WZ551, the Stryker will simply die if it tries to shoot the gunner of the WZ551A.

Really you just need to get use to these new weapons and how to use them, once players get to grips with them I doubt anyone will have a problems.

People cried soo much in the past that the Stryker couldn't kill other APCs and was too venerable, then players learnt not to drive them into the middle of the enemy alone and have other vehicles and infantry supporting them to take out any threats while the stryker sits back, gives a bit of support here and there but mainly dose the role of transporting.

Thou some players never learn and just use any APC as a light tank....

[M.Warren]

A special thanks to Engineer and TY2D2 and whomever else that has the open-mindedness to willfully examine my claims. I understand it's not an easy thing to do, but being informed is clearly something you value. As you can see, despite the fun poked at it, it still holds to it's purpose.

[Matrox]

The whole negative tone of this thread is just de-moralising for the team however, just like Chuc said earlier.

Sure if you don't think the littlebirds should be removed from qwai river, your more than welcome to voice your opinion. The change was made to give the map a bit of a fresh gameplay for an old map.

I fully back the change, and had a great round on mumble with apc's co-oridinating with infantry far more than Qwai has ever seen before. It would normally consist of a zerg rush from the US trying to get c4 onto the bridges by "choppa drop", so they could funnel all the armor onto landbridge, where a HAT/mine team could take it down. This creates the obvious stalemate when infantry finds it increasingly hard to cross the river.

Maps will change, items will be added and items will be taken away. The whole point of PR, as has been stated before, is to continually evolve.

It's all very well writing posts complaining that changing a map has ruined the mod, or changing the and stating that the mod has been ruined since 0.7. however, if you feel this way, then why are you playing the mod right now? If you feel so much disdain with what the mod has become, then why are you playing it?

The mod hasn't been out for a week, and yet people feel the need to come onto the forums and voice their opinions.

I just get a laugh because everyone claims that PR v0.86 is the "way it's meant to be" because the developers wanted it that way. I guarantee that about 6 months from now it'll be changed again in some manner making the statements that were just made in defense of the v0.86 build completely invalid.

And what is wrong with the developers wanting it that way? If you build a car, you do it for your own personal needs, and how you want to do it, not what your neighbour or mother-in-law thinks it should be. If someone wants to give his time up for a modification to be made, and has spent the time discussing with other people who give up their time to build a modification, why can't they have a majority say in how it should be made? if you feel so strongly about something why don't you take up coding? much like CAS did with his combined Arms mod, he wanted to do something a little bit different from the devs and made a PR mini mod.

Much like Chuc said, to have such vast criticism over such a small issue, whilst bigger feats have been overcome is simply de-moralising. The new animations are spot on, the fact that you haven't been on a server yet which has CTD'd due to a hacker has been a feat in itself, and one that DICE/EA hasn't managed yet. if you guys are too quick to judge our efforts so quickly, you may end up finding that we may lose the will to mod for a community that seems to be so demanding, and you will be stuck with this current build.

And finally:

Additionally, the PR team members are quite good at their gaming politics. What better way to raise interest in a mod then to announce the release of a new build/patch around January 1st before anyone gets to play a single round of it? But! Also coincidentally enough at the same time before the new build/patch is ever released, the MOD DB contest is already taking place or has taken place and decided the winner? Hmm...

Such a quote is pure speculation and cynicism, and quite offensive to the team as a whole. Your suggestion that we wont the MOD DB contest simply as we know how to play the marketing machine rather than the products as a whole denounces our efforts. I think Warren you need to look into whether PR is still the mod for you, because there seems to be so much constant bitterness from you towards the team.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[Ragni<RangersPL>]

Very good post M.Warren...

...and this one deserves to be in a sig

One day PR's going to change something that you've enjoyed all along. If it hasn't yet, you're either lucky or you had just installed the mod.

BTW.

And Zi8, how does Tad Sae still fail? The only problem with it was the ginourmous flag bleed, but aside from that it was amazing.

IMO, ticket bleed is one of most important factors on the map with only 2 flags and such a huge cap radius. That's why if you lose both neutral flags it's already too late, hence the players behaviour on this map (rush to both flags at the same moment).

[AnimalMother.]

A special thanks to Engineer and TY2D2 and whomever else that has the open-mindedness to willfully examine my claims. I understand it's not an easy thing to do, but being informed is clearly something you value. As you can see, despite the fun poked at it, it still holds to it's purpose.

3 lines only??? oh god something is wrong!



as for my opinion on .86


the AR for instance i think is superb, it has really revolutionised infantry combat, before it was "oh an LMG is firing at me, i'll just pull up my scope and easily pick him off" now its more of a "oh sh1t, i'm out in the open and an LMG has spotted me! run like f**k!". if only the same thing applied to Gunships...

i also think the medic changes are for the best too, bit harsh at times but from my point of view it means i'm more likely to have riflemen with the longer range capability and grenades.