.86 Project Reality taking a fall?

[OkitaMakoto]

A special thanks to Engineer and TY2D2 and whomever else that has the open-mindedness to willfully examine my claims. I understand it's not an easy thing to do, but being informed is clearly something you value. As you can see, despite the fun poked at it, it still holds to it's purpose.

Its not a matter of open mindedness, its a matter of not having the time to read through all of that filler

[Tonnie]

Right i completely agree with what matrox is saying and i 100% back EVERY change that was made in .86... if you have a problem with the mod or where its heading thats fine you can express your opinion i wont hold anything agaist you for it... BUT to state that the mod is now in a sense Shiz is completely insulting to the entire DEV team. Like Matrox said you need to look at if this is really the mod for you...

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Matrox;1063382']I think Warren you need to look into whether PR is still the mod for you, because there seems to be so much constant bitterness from you towards the team.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
[/quote]

[quote="M.Warren""]

1. Often the "PR is not for everyone so if it doesn't work for you, you can go back to Vanilla."

[/quote]

Well watch ur own words mate

Very good post M.Warren...

...and this one deserves to be in a sig

Now Ragni i would personly expect more then that coming from a dam R-CON.. you as a r-con have basicly stated that you agree with M.Warren in what his saying and what his saying imo is he dont like the mod... and in that case you shouldnt be prancing around insulting the mod by agreeing here.

[space]

Most of the 0.86 changes are minor tweaks really, and most are positive changes, so theres nothing much to cry about.

But I do really hope that something is done in the future to encourage more commanders. Do you guys not remember when people used to rush for that position? It seems obvious there's a problem when very few people are wanting to be commander, and yet nothing is attempted to try and change that

Please DEVs ! Make me want to go commander again!

[ChiefRyza]

People in this thread have posted in the most disrespectful manner I have ever heard...Nonetheless, I guess every game has people so uptight they need to complain against everything, while continuing to play the game. As a lot of people have said, why don't you look at another game? I know if I was a DEV I wouldn't be too pleased to have people like this infesting the community.

Qwai hasn't changed for a long, long time, yet when a change is made to it, people go nuts.
You don't have to agree, yet you don't have to kick dirt in people's faces either. I understand some people just have to complain about everything, for some sort of emotional release. We just don't need people like this hanging around, it is highly detrimental to the community as a whole, let alone the mod itself. If the DEV's didn't have the balls to get up and make changes regardless of 'popular demand' the mod wouldn't be ANYWHERE.

It's a work in bloody progress, learn to deal with it. For a free mod worked on in free time of everyone on the team, I find many posts here, pathetic and low beyond recognition. You should really, really be ashamed. You know who you are. Most if not all of the stuff people have been around to experience would have grown stale long ago had it still been here. I only started playing early 0.7, but I have enjoyed PR every step of the way. Sure, I have disagreed with many, many things but I've learnt to deal with them and understand their beneficial effect on the mod over time (except the Commander changes )

[barbdwyer22]

Man, I am so incredibly confused about people's reactions to the changes in .86.

As always, someone who thinks Wiki automatically makes them an expert on certain topics and people end up completely disregarding the few comments made by people with real life combat experience.

I hate to say it, but unless you were some ground tactical controller, USAF does NOT mean you know tactics buddy. I am assuming you are a POG and even Marine POGs would never be on the same level as a grunt. So, whatever you think your knowledge of tactics is, you might want to rethink that statement.

Now, I will make this quick, Insurgents are not nerfed. Everyone and their mom wants to be a PKM gunner now because they can shoot accurately deployed in any stance. RPGs seem to be more lethal than ever, they just take more time to get used to. I played yesterday and took out a Stryker in two hits, one in the wheels, one in the front. HMMWVs almost always blow up in one RPG shot now, sometimes instantly, sometimes it catches fire.

Also, with only two caches being available at any given time, there seems to be a greater concentration of insurgents in any given area and I played almost 15 hours yesterday and US never won a single time. I was talking to the ]H[ guys and some of us were thinking the devs tricked us and beefed up the insurgents instead of nerf them.

I do not know how many times people have to say this, MACHINE GUNS OWN THE BATTLEFIELD, ONE MG CAN PIN DOWN A WHOLE PLATOON. They are accurate at long ranges, you cry about 600m, THEY ARE EFFECTIVE PAST 1000M. F*** I want to punch every freaking person here who are making these retarded comments.

I have to cool off now, time to play PR.

[2ndLt_Tracz]

I think all the changes are positive:

1. First of all it is called Project Reality, not Project Balance, and in reality the Insurgents do get their asses kicked because they lack technology.

2. Stryker APC is stronger than a Chinese APC that is why it wins.

3. The important aspect of a sniper is not the distance but the stealth, the AR might have the same effective range but it takes it a couple of rounds and it is easily to spot it while a covered sniper takes one shot and noone is able to tell where it comes from.

for this one I belive that Sniper needs a guilie suit (I dk if I spelled it right).

4. If you were in Air Force then you most likely dont know how it is on the ground, plus in Boot Camp you dont get to fire the most advanced weapons, for example in Marine officer training you only get the M16A2.

[Farks]

I suggest everybody wait and play ~1 month before they start posting feedback, criticism, reviews, etc. That's when people have gotten used to the changes and the real problems start to appear. That's how it has always been.

[Ragni<RangersPL>]

Now Ragni i would personly expect more then that coming from a dam R-CON.. you as a r-con have basicly stated that you agree with M.Warren in what his saying and what his saying imo is he dont like the mod... and in that case you shouldnt be prancing around insulting the mod by agreeing here.

I expected a comment like that TBH

First of all I didn't said directly anywhere I agree with him or I dislike the mod, so no speculations over here please

I just said it's a good post because he spend a lot of time writing it in a very polite and intelligent way, he represented his opinion clearly and with constructive criticism which is nothing the DEVs are against as far as I remember (am I right? or something has changed recently?). That's why it is a good post in "an art of posting"

Secondly, I mentioned that his quote deserves to be in a sig because IMO it's an universal truth. It's obvious, PR is evolving and changing all the time, some things come, some things go... I think most of PR players liked something in previous versions and now it's gone... some of us may miss those things... for me that quote is a nostalgic thing and not an offence towards the mod or DEVs. That's how I see it.

I hope I cleared that up.

[sakils2]

1. First of all it is called Project Reality, not Project Balance, and in reality the Insurgents do get their asses kicked because they lack technology.

So thats why Talibans in Afghanistan are defeated...

[barbdwyer22]

Very true Farks, that has been the most sensible statement I have seen yet in this post.

[barbdwyer22]

So thats why Talibans in Afghanistan are defeated...

You're retarded, when we went in in 2001 the Taliban did get defeated pretty quickly. We sent them packing back to hide out in Pakistan. When we shifted focus to Iraq, the Taliban had time to take Afghanistan back. Now that we are focusing back on Afghanistan, we are kicking their butts again.

I spent 3 months there last year and lets just put it this way. We lost only a few people during that time but they lost over 50 in just my sections mortar attacks alone. That is not including whatever the rifleman or air killed.

[Twisted Helix]

But the simple fact of the matter is we don't know for sure and there is now one who could run some tests on the SAW and find out for sure what it effective range is how effective it really is, how a large is the grouping extra. all we got is some very varied and unreliable information on the internet and most of it complete bull shit.

Basic details on the SAW ...

M249 SAW
Primary function: Hand-held combat machine gun
Manufacturer: Fabrique Nationale Manufacturing, Inc.
Length: 40.87 inches (103.81 centimeters)
Weight:
With bipod and tools: 15.16 pounds (6.88 kilograms)
200-round box magazine: 6.92 pounds (3.14 kilograms)
30-round magazine: 1.07 pounds (.49 kilograms)
Bore diameter: 5.56mm (.233 inches)
Maximum effective range: 3281 feet (1000 meters) for an area target
Maximum range: 2.23 miles (3.6 kilometers)
Rates of fire:
Cyclic: 725 rounds per minute
Sustained: 85 rounds per minute
Unit Replacement Cost: $4,087

Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW), M249 Light Machine Gun

[Psyko]

i disagreed with the thread title, and i didnt like the flame. but i dont like it when people say...
"if you dont like the mod why are you still playing it?"

really? you cant think thats cool. its just not. people are playing the mod because they are in favour of the principal that gave birth to it correct me if im wrong. And with every release i'v seen a bombardment of nasty comments but people eventually adjust, but even if they disagree with things in each release they still have faith in the development of the mod and hang onto it.

why indeed? i'll tell you my reason...
fastropes

[M.Warren]

I remember what PR was. It still instills inspiration to this day for myself and I still miss it so. Time and time again it's been stated "If PR's not your taste, when why don't you stop playing it?" the answer is simple; I'm not a quitter. I don't give up on something that I know has potential. Project Reality has a lot of potential, but I think it has been spending too much time on addressing one thing more than others. There are several issues in PR that's been considered "low-priority" since even v0.7 and v0.75 that still hasn't been addressed to this day.

Another thing to consider is that PR really has it's own "Realism" monopoly. There aren't many true realism mods out there. So players are forced to resort to Project Reality as there simply nothing else out there that comes close. And it goes without saying that PR can get away with certain things in this situation that it wouldn't be able to if it had some serious lateral competition.

I mean think about it. There's AMD vs. Intel processors. There's ATI vs. Nvidia video cards. Then there's PR vs. ... Well nothing. Get the picture?

Additionally, I am convinced that PR will also extend into the future. There's no doubt that PR has some of the most inspiring people that look to teamwork and realism. Even when PR has come to an end with the BF2 engine it's team members will take the concept of PR in mind and move on to a new game such as OPFP2 or Arma 2. Heck, maybe it'll even get it's own engine one day. Who knows?

I want PR to progress into new games and create their own version of reality. Why? Because Project Reality still seems to be the only community out there that truly strives for a purebred realism mod. But how can this be done if the community is practically divided each time a new build/patch is released? Something needs to get fixed here.

Maps will change, items will be added and items will be taken away. The whole point of PR, as has been stated before, is to continually evolve.

I also understand that Project Reality wants to evolve, but even evolution has to be worthwhile and practical. Just changing something for the sake of "a new spin" isn't what I consider positive evolution.

The question is:
A) Is Project Reality evolving because it's necessary for gameplay and to serve the community?
B) Is it evolving in fear that players will lose intrest if they don't have something new to play?
C) Is it evolving because it's necessary for gameplay despite what the masses in the community want?
D) Is it a little bit of all of the above?

I'm under the impression that PR seems to have forgotten it's roots in some cases. Because of the amount of people that play PR is astounding "we can afford to lose a few people" kind of situation isn't what I'm particularly happy with if that's what's being hinted.

I'm hoping that one day that the PR begins a more democratic and opinion based system where they create a poll for what should be implemented into the forums. And the forum community is asked to pick what changes they would like over others solutions in comparison for the next build. I think the PR team would be surprised in some cases on what should be changed and what should be left alone at times.

Let's look back. Does anyone remember v0.75 right? The PR community was erupting with popularity thinking it was going to be flat-out awesome when the v0.8 build came out. Why? Because everyone saw all the changes being made to PR at that time. They thought it was going to be like v0.75 with more content and vehicles. Turns out it wasn't anything like v0.75 with more content. PR had instead made v0.8 nearly a whole new mod because of changes and had upset a fair amount of individuals.

Core of the situation is that players seem to be looking for a standard normalcy in gameplay. That's really it.

I think Warren you need to look into whether PR is still the mod for you, because there seems to be so much constant bitterness from you towards the team.

I'm not an [R-DEV] or [R-CON] or anything like that and for me to start now would be a bit late in my eyes.

But I do have one thing that can even help a developer; a Personal Message mail box. If any of the developers wanted to specifically ask me about what I thought about something I would tell them with my utmost honesty. My mailbox has been around since the v0.6 build and it's still open today. I wish the PR team would be more open about the work being done for the next build instead of concealing it in secrecy to the last second before it's released and wondering why some of the community is upset.

CAS_117 had spoken to me in the past about what I thought about Jet Aircraft and the fixes made. I've spoken to Jaymz as well about several things in the past that's also been put into effect this build. The same door is open to you Matrox. If you wish to speak to me and ask of my opinions I would give you (and any other developer from the team) my time and effort any day of the week. But if no one cares to ask, then nothing shall be done. The door is always open. Feel free to ask anything, even about what can be done to improve Combat Engineers.

After all, I don't see why the main gamers of PR shouldn't be consulted. I've probably played more hours of PR than most developers have been able to. I'm not saying this in anyway to be spiteful, but if the developers are constantly working on the mod, how much time could they have to themselves to actually play it? That's where your gaming community steps in and has a valuable word. It simply comes down to "trust" and that's a major thing that needs improvement.

Sorry if you hate the length, but if you've were able to read it through it you understand where I'm coming from.

[barbdwyer22]

LOL, good job RHYS, except all of the people here who have been trained and have seen the weapon in combat.

Wow, why am I still posting, these internet kids wont stop.

[sakils2]

You're retarded, when we went in in 2001 the Taliban did get defeated pretty quickly. We sent them packing back to hide out in Pakistan. When we shifted focus to Iraq, the Taliban had time to take Afghanistan back. Now that we are focusing back on Afghanistan, we are kicking their butts again.

I spent 3 months there last year and lets just put it this way. We lost only a few people during that time but they lost over 50 in just my sections mortar attacks alone. That is not including whatever the rifleman or air killed.

I'm retarded for stating the obvious?

And I spent 3 years in Afghanistan fighting side by side with the Taliban, we killed 157 NATO troops, WITH KNIFES. YEAH, WITH KNIFES!

And please give me a source about those 50 Talibans killed by your sections mortar attacks.

[Twisted Helix]

But I do have one thing that can even help a developer; a Personal Message mail box. If any of the developers wanted to specifically ask me about what I thought about something I would tell them with my utmost honesty.

I think there is a 5000 word limit on PMs that can't be overcome technically.

(sorry ... I couldn't help myself )

I spent 3 months there last year and lets just put it this way. We lost only a few people during that time but they lost over 50 in just my sections mortar attacks alone. That is not including whatever the rifleman or air killed.

But the problem, as the russians found out, is that they just do not give up.

I saw some video footage the other day from Helmand which was an eye opener. And one of the soldiers summed it up so well ... he said "For them its about fighting, for us its about surviving."

[ChiefRyza]

Warren, you go about the DEV team as if their getting paid to do what they do. They DON'T. They toil away and get this **** in return. Really makes me sick...You also speak in a manner where your opinion is the only one that matters. However, if the team were to listen to your side of the story, where would that leave the people on the other side?

[M.Warren]

Very good post M.Warren...

Hey, I got your back. I've even been offered [R-CON] in the past but I declined as I prefer a broader spectrum in my ability to speak freely. I had even been searching the forums once or twice, one second I saw someone as an [R-CON] and the next minute he looked like a regular forum member. I even know people that aren't [R-CON]'s or [R-DEV]'s anymore simply because the path PR is taking doesn't fit their style.

Some people are under the impression that I want to tear PR down. Which certainly isn't the case. I do like PR very much and I just want a positive change just like many other individuals that are coming to surface around here. I'm happy to see that people are concerned as I am and want to have it progress in a more suitable fashion.

It's not like I'm claiming conspiracy, it's a game for gods sake.