Add 1 more fighter to kashan and remove their bombs

[Elektro]

H[=ElvishKnight;1065645']And you do realize that those strafing runs in a FIGHTER are very risky if there is aa up. Better to just stay above their limit and drop your 'mini jdams' on lases with them never even knowing you were there.

pop flares AAs are nealy useless if the pilot is smart enough to use flares

[Elektro]

So... by adding dogfights we add strategy...
Not by adding more CAS so it can be more flexible.
Not even by CA mod's approach. In which you have to move as convoy to be protected.
Right know the CAS planes cant fly in formation with the already existed fighters.
No. These methods above dont have strategy.
We have more strategy if we have "epic" dogfights in 4x4Km map.

Interesting approach....

1 - So... by adding dogfights we add strategy... Fighters are made to neutralise any threads in the air to make space for the CAS planes to help infantry take out armour. Yes this adds more strategy to the game extracting bombers and covering each other in the air

2 - Not even by CA mod's approach. In which you have to move as convoy to be protected. Move as a convoy i belive you mean a formation ? Well nothing stops you from flying in a formation in PR ofc u cant see each others faces but its enough to start up an attack or defence.


3 - Right know the CAS planes cant fly in formation with the already existed fighters. Well actually if u put down your power to 90 % in a fighter u can i did this the other day on Kashan. But the idea is to fly around it keeping a visual on the bomber and making sure that no one gets too close without u seeing him

4 No. These methods above dont have strategy. How about u open ur mind and start thinking abit more creativ im sure you will see that there is abit more strategy than you realize.

[Nemus]

1 - So... by adding dogfights we add strategy... Fighters are made to neutralise any threads in the air to make space for the CAS planes to help infantry take out armour. Yes this adds more strategy to the game extracting bombers and covering each other in the air

2 - Not even by CA mod's approach. In which you have to move as convoy to be protected. Move as a convoy i belive you mean a formation ? Well nothing stops you from flying in a formation in PR ofc u cant see each others faces but its enough to start up an attack or defence.


3 - Right know the CAS planes cant fly in formation with the already existed fighters. Well actually if u put down your power to 90 % in a fighter u can i did this the other day on Kashan. But the idea is to fly around it keeping a visual on the bomber and making sure that no one gets too close without u seeing him

4 No. These methods above dont have strategy. How about u open ur mind and start thinking abit more creativ im sure you will see that there is abit more strategy than you realize.

1. They already have this role in PR. By adding more we dont change their role. So how exactly we improve strategy?

2. No i mean convoy for ground troops. Because CA has the rule: Make planes deadly so the enemy must cooperate to win them.

3. If can do it already as you say why change it?

4. Actually i said that by your post (before the edit you made) it seems that all methods above dont have strategy but it can be achieved with dogfights. Dogfight is not a strategy and it cant be considered as strategy no matter how much creative i am.

[joethepro36]

If anything, there should be two CAS aircraft and one fighter. Multiple fighters without bombs = very quick dogfights which then mean the fighters being useless for 20 minutes. Arguably, jets would still have the firepower to hit the ground but;

The cannon on fighters is useless against infantry as it has low area of effect damage and requires direct hits on armour to kill. The cannon is not meant to be used on ground targets in the first place after all.

The anti air missiles are extremely effective vs light armour and infantry but it's terribly unrealistic. I'm saying that hypothetically anti air missiles could be used effectively vs ground targets in real life, but jets would be equipped with ground attack weaponry if the sortie needed it.

Kashan doesn't need more fighters and it doesn't need more CAS either.

[Alex6714]

H[=ElvishKnight;1065645']And you do realize that those strafing runs in a FIGHTER are very risky if there is aa up. Better to just stay above their limit and drop your 'mini jdams' on lases with them never even knowing you were there.

Its always risky but in my experience its generally safer in a fighter to do a strafing run than in the CAS jet. The speed makes it harder for the AA missiles and takes you out of the area quickly.

Depending on what you are strafing the fighter is also better at it. Infantry/light vehicles will be dealt with much better with 1-2 aim 9s and a bit of cannon than 20 hydras for example, but then again it depends on the target.

Yes it is terribly unrealistic to use Aim9s vs ground targets like it is done, but so are many things and its just way to effective to not do for the sake of not doing it. If there is enemy down there harrasing your team, they aren´t going to be happy with you if you are up there saying "no, I may have missiles but thats bad so I won´t use them".

[Rhino]

I love how Alex always asks for as much realism as possible but promotes unrealistic tactics at the same time

[Elektro]

4. Actually i said that by your post (before the edit you made) it seems that all methods above dont have strategy but it can be achieved with dogfights. Dogfight is not a strategy and it cant be considered as strategy no matter how much creative i am.

ah my friend that is a good statement there is no strategy in dogfighting the reason in which i fell in love with jets is becouse of the strategy and laws of physics there is in a dogfight Speed, altitude manuvers its all one dangerous but lovely game

here is a video that shows some of the situations there can be, its along video but if u skip abit through it you will see that a dogfight is quite amazing i have an example at 5:00 if u go there

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[Alex6714]

I love how Alex always asks for as much realism as possible but promotes unrealistic tactics at the same time

I don´t want to go into the reasons here for obvious reasons suffice to say that its damn effective and is one of the reasons for promoting realism (ie, realistic missiles = realistic tactics).

Although alot of work the best thing is to probably reduce all the damage modifiers for the materials other than aircraft to the correct levels (yes, I know it needs an unrealistically big one to haver a chance of engaging fast aircraft).

[Rhino]

ye well the AA missiles use to fly upwards after a certain period of time if they had no lock so they couldn't be used on ground targets but someone changed it (think it was CAS when he was doing the missile tweaks) probably by mistake but ye, adding that back in would be the most effective way to stop them from being used as air to ground rockets

[Masaq]

Meh, the AA missiles shouldn't launch without lock.

[Rhino]

Meh, the AA missiles shouldn't launch without lock.

that is in fact possible but not 100% sure how realistic it is.

[Nemus]

that is in fact possible but not 100% sure how realistic it is.

Its unrealistic
AA missiles can be launched without lock.
Radar missiles can be launched with MADDOG launch and they became active immediately.
IR can be launced uncaged or caged (behave like rockets)

[Alex6714]

The type of close range AA I've operated, IR guided, required a lock before it could be launched.. Otherwise it would not do anything, it was probably part of the failsafe mechanism.

Anyway, they are probably programmable to be launched under any circumstances...

Something that needs to be looked into. In game I don´t think its possible. Irl I think radar guidad missiles can be launched without lock and then the lock aquired, but I am not sure if thats only ground or airborne aswell.

[Rissien]

If the aa has a lock sometimes flares wont do anygood even if you dont launch the instant you lock. We were waiting for more members to arrive for a practice session last night and I was on a manapad as a Mig flew over out main. In the 5 seconds it took him to get out of my range *I never fired* I had a lock on him the entire time even when he popped flares.

In live games ive gotten similar results, the Mig doing strafing runs on a position near North Bunker, I just grabbed an aa kit from a crate, he flies over again doing another strafing run and a few seconds later he was dead in the skies even when he deployed several flares.

[CAS_117]

I love how Alex always asks for as much realism as possible but promotes unrealistic tactics at the same time

It was during one of these CAP missions, at 2:00am on January 30 that two Canadian pilots, Maj. David “DW” Kendall and Capt. Steve “Hillbilly” Hill were called upon to attack an Iraqi patrol boat, a TCN-45 which carry the deadly anti-ship Exocet missile and anti-aircraft guns. Both aircraft strafed the speeding boat, well illuminated by moonlight, with observed 20 mm cannon hits. Passes were made to try a weapons system lock for the-air-to ground Sidewinder, but the boat’s heat signature was insufficient. In a subsequent pass, Kendall received a full system lock on air-to-air mode and launched a Sparrow missile which impacted the water close to the boat. This event represented the first instance of Canadian forces firing on an enemy in a declared combat since the Korean War. Otherwise however, CAP missions proved to be relatively routine. The armourers were frustrated with the lack of work.

Aviation Art-Original Canadian Landscape Paintings-Limited Edition Giclée Prints-Catalog Shopping-Rich Thistle Studio

I love how Rhino always calls things unrealistic without finding out whether they are or not.

ye well the AA missiles use to fly upwards after a certain period of time if they had no lock so they couldn't be used on ground targets but someone changed it (think it was CAS when he was doing the missile tweaks) probably by mistake but ye, adding that back in would be the most effective way to stop them from being used as air to ground rockets

I didn't change it, but the missiles are not affected by gravity unless they reach max speed. And considering that is around a kilometer per second, its not going to fly up until its out of view distance. Besides, they don't fly up in real life, and they have been used in the AG role in a pinch. If we're talking realism then lets talk about the arming delay on LGBs.

[Punkbuster]

Yes as you might expect i am a flying whore ;b but you know what i am proud of it !

[Quote/]

If you are a flying whore, Then I am a flying *****!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Flying FTW!!!!!

Anyway back to topic, I like the idea, I always fly the F-16 in Kashan, And at the beggining I search for the MiGs then go to JDAM, Sometimes the MiG gets on my 6 when I dive to bomb, But thank god I am a good pilot and I know how to escape, if there was another F-16 to help me while I bomb it would be better

[Rhino]

I love how Rhino always calls things unrealistic without finding out whether they are or not.

lol, I was going off what Alex said with it being unrealistic and I have never heard of it before, I doubt it's common practice and more of a backup?

[CAS_117]

lol, I was going off what Alex said with it being unrealistic and I have never heard of it before, I doubt it's common practice and more of a backup?

Same as in PR.