Kits (i know you heard them all)

johnson26thmeu · Post by **johnson26thmeu** » 2006-05-30 01:04

I'm about to explain some kits that the United States Marine Corps currently use in the battlefield.

I'll list them by class of the soldier.

Engineer- When my best bud enlisted last year as a combat engineer, he was issued a standard M-16A4 with all his modifications he could make, he and most of his squad is basic rifleman nothing more.

Medic (Corpsman)- Another one of my ******* and complaints is that the Marines don't have medics, they don't have corpsman either the Navy Corpsman is a variety of things, but the one who serve with Marines are called Fleet Marine Force Corpsman or FMF Corpsman. The new squid corpsman use the M-16a4 along with other Marines, but when experience comes along they use M4!

Anti-Tank- Of course you heard this one but the M-16A4 belongs here too. (Come on devs, in the sake of realism your kinda doing the same thing DICE is doing for fair gameplay.)

Sniper- The Marine Corps has redseinged the M-14 to what they called a DMR or Desginated Marksman Rifle which looks like a m-14 with a scope (I can't tell you how it feels, i don't want to be shot by one)

Thats about all the ******* moans and complaints from me!! Great mod, just wish you can get the hotfix soon i'm dying over here!

Crawley · Post by **Crawley** » 2006-05-30 01:07

If they added a M 14 i would use no other kit

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-05-30 01:18

johnson26thmeu wrote:Anti-Tank- Of course you heard this one but the M-16A4 belongs here too. (Come on devs, in the sake of realism your kinda doing the same thing DICE is doing for fair gameplay.)

I dont know how many times Eddie has to post this in so many topics. It is realistic that a Heavy Anti Tanker dose not cary a rifle in the mariens.

If it was a light AT weapon then yes he would cary a rifle.

johnson26thmeu · Post by **johnson26thmeu** » 2006-05-30 01:25

Whose eddie??? I don't look through the forums as much but let me get some info from my friends in Weapons Company.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-05-30 01:27

"eddie" refers to [R-DEV]Eddie Baker, one the Project Reality military advisors.

johnson26thmeu · Post by **johnson26thmeu** » 2006-05-30 01:36

Assualt-Forgot this while i was talking to a Marine Corps buddy of mine. In the Marines a scout is one with the 203 attachment, although he has m203 grenades he also has fragmentation grenades and three flashbangs for urban ops, Even those Rifleman with out the M-16a4/203 has them this way you can have what i always wanted, the assualt class with e regular m-16a4.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-05-30 01:37

johnson26thmeu wrote:Whose eddie??? I don't look through the forums as much but let me get some info from my friends in Weapons Company.

That would be me.

We've been familiar with the differences in Marine Corps terminology, organization and equipment since we started the mod, but correcting that in the game is a low priority at the moment since we are having to model an entirely new faction from scratch.

The SMG for the engineer is an experiment at the moment, it will probably be replaced with the appropriate service rifle in the next release.

Assault will be divided up into rifleman and grenadier in future releases.

As to the anti-tank issue, yes, it is realistic, but it is also balanced with what we are trying to accomplish with PR; improved teamplay. And, if you are a Marine you know that having to rely on your fellow Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen/Marines for support is reality. If the anti-tank class gets a shoulder-launched, anti-tank guided missile and a rifle that he can switch to in under a second, what incentive is there to play any other class? And since if we do that the sniper would then be the only class without an automatic weapon, should we then give them an assault rifle/carbine or machine-pistol, too? Can't wait to hear the "feedback" about that.

PR is going by this table of organization and equipment for its anti-armor class, taken from the Intro to MOS 0351 (Anti-Tank Assaultman) student handout published by the USMC School of Infantry at Camp Lejeune, which can be found here

c. Equipment Organic to the Assault Section. In addition to the personal equipment and mission essential load that an Assault man may have to carry, there are specific items that can also be assigned to that individual.

(1) Section Leader. The section leader is equipped with:

(a) One lensatic compass.

(b) Technical Manual number 08673A-10/1.

(c) Binoculars.

(d) M-7 or M-9 Bayonet.

(e) M16A2 rifle.

(2) Gunners. Each of the six SMAW gunners within the section will be equipped with:

(a) Telescopic sight.

(b) MK153 SMAW.

(c) Two SMAW rockets.

(d) M9 9mm pistol.

(e) K-bar.

(3) A-Gunners. Each of the six A-gunners/ammo men will be equipped with:

(a) Two SMAW rockets.

(b) M16A2 rifle.

(c) M-7 or M-9 bayonet.

Does every unit go by this TO&E? No. One Marine has told us that the assaultmen he work with have a different standard operating procedure and that both team-members carry an M16 series rifle. However, prior to this, three other Marines, all infantry, stated to us and in open forums that the assaultmen they worked with carried only sidearms. Is the rifle SOP now true for the entire Marine Corps? We don't know. All of the photographs we've sifted through on the USMC's own image gallery (high-res, good references) indicate that the majority of assaultmen don't carry the M16 in addition to the SMAW, which agrees with the TM found on the USMC School of Infantry website. Once again, is the assault team SMAW gunner having only a sidearm realistic? Yes. Does every unit go by the TM TO&E? No.

USMC and Army Javelin gunners carry the M16 or M4 (depending on service/unit), Javelin CLU and one missile, relying on their A-gunner to carry more. I hope you understand our reasoning now for the sidearm and multiple rockets/missiles. Eventually we hope to have unguided anti-armor weapons (SMAW, Carl Gustav, RPG-7) in kits and and light anti-armor weapons (M136, SMAW-D, RPG-26) dispersed in the rifleman kits.

CJones[31stMEU] · Post by **CJones[31stMEU]** » 2006-05-30 03:58

I was under the impression the Marines are sticking with AT4s and Javelins now they stopped buying the Predator SRAW I know this cause I have a friend in the United States Marine Corps I was also under the impression that the SRAW was going to fire and forget

johnson26thmeu · Post by **johnson26thmeu** » 2006-05-30 04:16

'[R-DEV wrote:Eddie Baker']That would be me. We've been familiar with the differences in Marine Corps terminology, organization and equipment since we started the mod, but correcting that in the game is a low priority at the moment since we are having to model an entirely new faction from scratch.

The SMG for the engineer is an experiment at the moment, it will probably be replaced with the appropriate service rifle in the next release.

Assault will be divided up into rifleman and grenadier in future releases.

As to the anti-tank issue, yes, it is realistic, but it is also balanced with what we are trying to accomplish with PR; improved teamplay. And, if you are a Marine you know that having to rely on your fellow Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen/Marines for support is reality. If the anti-tank class gets a shoulder-launched, anti-tank guided missile and a rifle that he can switch to in under a second, what incentive is there to play any other class? And since if we do that the sniper would then be the only class without an automatic weapon, should we then give them an assault rifle/carbine or machine-pistol, too? Can't wait to hear the "feedback" about that.

PR is going by this table of organization and equipment for its anti-armor class, taken from the Intro to MOS 0351 (Anti-Tank Assaultman) student handout published by the USMC School of Infantry at Camp Lejeune, which can be found here

c. Equipment Organic to the Assault Section. In addition to the personal equipment and mission essential load that an Assault man may have to carry, there are specific items that can also be assigned to that individual.

(1) Section Leader. The section leader is equipped with:

(a) One lensatic compass.

(b) Technical Manual number 08673A-10/1.

(c) Binoculars.

(d) M-7 or M-9 Bayonet.

(e) M16A2 rifle.

(2) Gunners. Each of the six SMAW gunners within the section will be equipped with:

(a) Telescopic sight.

(b) MK153 SMAW.

(c) Two SMAW rockets.

(d) M9 9mm pistol.

(e) K-bar.

(3) A-Gunners. Each of the six A-gunners/ammo men will be equipped with:

(a) Two SMAW rockets.

(b) M16A2 rifle.

(c) M-7 or M-9 bayonet.

Does every unit go by this TO&E? No. One Marine has told us that the assaultmen he work with have a different standard operating procedure and that both team-members carry an M16 series rifle. However, prior to this, three other Marines, all infantry, stated to us and in open forums that the assaultmen they worked with carried only sidearms. Is the rifle SOP now true for the entire Marine Corps? We don't know. All of the photographs we've sifted through on the USMC's own image gallery (high-res, good references) indicate that the majority of assaultmen don't carry the M16 in addition to the SMAW, which agrees with the TM found on the USMC School of Infantry website. Once again, is the assault team SMAW gunner having only a sidearm realistic? Yes. Does every unit go by the TM TO&E? No.

USMC and Army Javelin gunners carry the M16 or M4 (depending on service/unit), Javelin CLU and one missile, relying on their A-gunner to carry more. I hope you understand our reasoning now for the sidearm and multiple rockets/missiles. Eventually we hope to have unguided anti-armor weapons (SMAW, Carl Gustav, RPG-7) in kits and and light anti-armor weapons (M136, SMAW-D, RPG-26) dispersed in the rifleman kits.

Ahh excellent finding. Well let me tell you why i was told the SMAW person carried a rifle. One in the Iraq right now there are no tanks, and every Marine knows its a fight to the death so if all of your squad gets knocked out and you here with a SMAW and a pistol, do you really think he has a chance? No. Thats why i was under that impression! Sorry for the misunderstanding and is there a possible way to edit some of these damn voices, i hate the word medic, when i bleed i yell "CORPSMAN!!!!!!!!"

CJones[31stMEU] · Post by **CJones[31stMEU]** » 2006-05-30 05:15

johnson26thmeu wrote:when i bleed i yell "CORPSMAN!!!!!!!!"

If I was bleeding I'd probably yell DOC or CORPSMAN

Post by **RikiRude** » 2006-05-30 05:17

johnson26thmeu wrote:Whose eddie??? I don't look through the forums as much but let me get some info from my friends in Weapons Company.

you wanna do the mod a huge favor? get your buddy from weapons company to take different weapons, place them on a white sheet and get pictures from the top, bottom, left, right, front, back, and close ups on details, something to make any of the modelers to drool

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-05-30 05:19

'[R-DEV wrote:Riki_Rude_BTYC']you wanna do the mod a huge favor? get your buddy from weapons company to take different weapons, place them on a white sheet and get pictures from the top, bottom, left, right, front, back, and close ups on details, something to make any of the modelers to drool

that would be extramly useful.

Andrew_Kirk_25 · Post by **Andrew_Kirk_25** » 2006-05-30 05:44

Plus, the M-14 DMR is for Designated Marksmen. Snipers use the M40A3.

johnson26thmeu · Post by **johnson26thmeu** » 2006-05-30 06:51

Andrew_Kirk_25 wrote:Plus, the M-14 DMR is for Designated Marksmen. Snipers use the M40A3.

True see i stick with regular infantry! I could care less what snipers use but i was close! the M40A3 is one accurate son of ***** though.

johnson26thmeu · Post by **johnson26thmeu** » 2006-05-30 06:52

'[R-DEV wrote:Riki_Rude_BTYC']you wanna do the mod a huge favor? get your buddy from weapons company to take different weapons, place them on a white sheet and get pictures from the top, bottom, left, right, front, back, and close ups on details, something to make any of the modelers to drool

I'll see if they have time for thier pre-deployment training

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-05-30 10:05

johnson26thmeu wrote:Ahh excellent finding. Well let me tell you why i was told the SMAW person carried a rifle. One in the Iraq right now there are no tanks, and every Marine knows its a fight to the death so if all of your squad gets knocked out and you here with a SMAW and a pistol, do you really think he has a chance? No. Thats why i was under that impression! Sorry for the misunderstanding and is there a possible way to edit some of these damn voices, i hate the word medic, when i bleed i yell "CORPSMAN!!!!!!!!"

Like I said, not every unit uses the TO&E as their SOP. Your information is probably correct for that unit. No misunderstanding.

Yes, the voiceovers can be changed, but right now it's a low priority.

'CJones[31stMEU wrote:']I was under the impression the Marines are sticking with AT4s and Javelins now they stopped buying the Predator SRAW I know this cause I have a friend in the United States Marine Corps I was also under the impression that the SRAW was going to fire and forget

The Predator SRAW is/was inertial-guided fire-and-forget, yes. The Marines are still using the M136/AT-4 and Javelin, but in the weapons platoons of the rifle companies, they have the SMAW, which is basically a "modernized" bazooka. It's used for more than just anti-tank, it also has a high explosive dual-purpose round for bunkers and exposed infantry; the round has the capability to penetrate and then explode. Future rounds include confined-space rounds and thermobaric incendiary rounds.

Andrew_Kirk_25 · Post by **Andrew_Kirk_25** » 2006-05-31 05:25

SMAW-NE, Thermobaric. That's a lotta asskicking. *Drools*...

Fenris · Post by **Fenris** » 2006-05-31 15:13

'[R-DEV wrote:Riki_Rude_BTYC']you wanna do the mod a huge favor? get your buddy from weapons company to take different weapons, place them on a white sheet and get pictures from the top, bottom, left, right, front, back, and close ups on details, something to make any of the modelers to drool

Since there are commercially available photos out there, I don't know why I feel so nervous about this request... but that little voice in the back of my mind is screaming OPSEC!!!

(lol... maybe you shoud ask for some hi-res photos of some commo gear, too.)

Post by **Wraith** » 2006-05-31 15:51

If some one posted high res photos of commo grear I would yell OPSEC... that's off limits to the civies.. I have a buddy that is in the us Para Rescue and he was telling me that part of the rescues they were doing in the US during hurricane katrina he had to have people sign NDR's due to the sensitive nature of the gear he was carrying..

Butmonkey · Post by **Butmonkey** » 2006-06-03 12:25

And if they didnt sign? "Sorry We have no room for you, we will come back for you." "But thers another 3 seats in the helicopter" "No thers not"

on a note about kits. Couldnt you use the weapon unlock slots as multiple kit loadouts for each class? Instead of everybody of the same class having the same loadout. It could also mean engineers arnt as explosive, Mines, Claymores, C4. The equipment could be split like in BFV with the two engineer classes.

Another option would be to allow a person to carry a pistol at the expense of carrying a weapon that is below average in strength and accuracy.