I've been playing PR since .6. And with every release I get more and more frustrated with designs that try to "force" teamwork rather than creating a more "realistic" experience. I know this is a game and compromises need to be made due to engine limitations. But I think the DEVs are over compensating in the wrong direction.
I realized that by just describing my experiences, people will say that I have too much bias. A video recording of a game from a First Person Perspective and from a Map Perspective of any public game can demonstrate my point of view. I don't have the equipment to make such video, but if someone is willing to help please feel free to do so. You can argue that a "public" game will be full of 'noobs' and will no be the best example of an organized match, such as a clan match. However, the truth is that nearly all of PR games played are public, and they are clearly a showcase of how the game is generally played.
I understand that the DEVs want to encourage more teamwork, but I don't think implementing hindrances or restrictions is the way to go. Sometimes DEVs can even go overboard with this idea. For example, 50cals and cannons now overheat excessively for a very long time. This was implemented to 'force' players to fire in burst (like soldiers are trained do in RL). However, the consequence of this is that you get a extremely unrealistic 50cal that provide a volume of fire that is NOT EVEN CLOSE to its real life counterpart. You guys catch my drift? This is only 1 example.
My question is: "why are the DEVs constantly trying to MOD player behavior?" When they always make the contradicting point of "you can't mod the players." To me, if you're trying to mod something that can't be modded, then you'll get a conditioned behavior that is not realistic. Since this is a Sandbox game, why can't Devs just make weapons and assets as realistically as possible to the limit of the engine and LET THE PLAYERS ADAPT TO THEM. Players can choose to play realistically or LOSE the game.
This way, if guns are made to handle easier without the 'gamey' RANDOM deviation, if tanks are made as powerful as they are in RL, and if jets are made as capable as they are in RL, then players will naturally work together to WIN. Contrary to PR's current system, this system will reward those who play REALISTICALLY and those who play with TEAMWORK. How do I know this ^ natural behavior will happen? Is it just my predictions? No! I've observed this in the Combined Arms mod. Even though my played time was only during test sessions with the maximum of 20 people on the server, the level of teamwork and realistic behavior displayed is much much greater than PR in most situations.
(The reason I didn't use CA as an example in my original post is that people will likely turn this into a PR vs CA debate with fanboys on each side making jabs at each other. That is not the point of this thread.) The reason I want to use CA as an example is that it tries to go in the opposite direction of PR in the sense that it tries to model weapons and assets realistically and allow players to make the choice. WHAT DO I MEAN BY 'REALISTICALLY?' It's very simple. DON'T NERF THINGS like in PR, let them be as powerful as they are.
Let me give an example from CA in which players naturally worked together. I was in an M2 Linebacker on Desert Rats looking for aircraft to kill. A friendly tank then joined the convoy and begged for my AA protection and offered his Anti Tank protection. Why such a mutual understanding of the need of mutal reliance? We both knew that with the new fire control systems in CA, tanks and jets can see targets very clearly from very far away with the FLIR and engage without any INF to lase targets. I was definitely feeling to some degree, even though it is a video game, a fear for my life. Some of you may argue that "HEY I make convoys in PR all the time too!" Sure you do, but have you ever felt fear when a jet passes over you and make you running to the nearest AAV? In PR, jets have not FLIR pods that allow themselves to identify targets so they fly around the map aimlessly until INF can direct them. With the lack of zoom to compensate for the resolution of a video game, it makes it impossible to destroy targets. Seriously, tanks in PR are more afraid of a soldier with a HAT than a jet overhead. THIS IS NOT HOW IT WORKS IN RL.
Next I want to talk about realistic behavior in combat exhibited in CA. This happened during INF combat in the bunkers of Desert Rats. In CA, weapons have no deviation and there's realistic ballistics that was originally created for PR. Since weapons are extremely accurate with no deviation save for recoil, I found myself dying more than usual. Of course, I was still acting under the behavior left over from PR, in which I dolphin dive and try to out snipe the enemy. However, that did not work out well because the guns were so accurate and responsive as they are in RL. The circumstances forced me to quickly adapt and take cover every time I heard a CRACK going over my head as I knew that there was no RANDOM deviation that will help me luckily dodge bullets anymore. In fact, I don't think I needed the suppression effect to FORCE my head down. I naturally felt the need to keep my head down to SURVIVE! Just to show that I'm not biased with CA, I just want to say that PR 0.86 did do something right with the LMGs. The effects of more realistic weapons modeling are already showing! People are keeping their heads down due to these LMGs.
Where you AIM IS WHERE YOU HIT! Another problem with PR's deviation is that it truly breaks immersion. Every time I shoot I'm being reminded that I'm in a video game because the bullets just don't want to hit where I aim. I have to wait a few seconds to settle and cross my fingers that my round will find the target.
My post is already getting longer than I like. But still there are so many examples, such as the problem with Rally Points that ironically promote Squad Level Teamwork, rather than Team Level teamwork. Back to my point about a video of the MAP/MINIMAP of a game. A video of that would most likely show how each individual squad have their own objective and they will show patterns of unrealistic behavior. Unlike RL, the battlefields of PR apparently do not have defined front lines. INF and Armor squads go all over the map behind enemy lines unscathed and undetected WAYYYY too often and WAYYY to easily. Of course, you can argue that "you can't mod players." However, give the Apache its FLIR, give Tanks its FLIR, give Jets FLIR, give INF more responsive rifles, see if people still behave as though the 6-man squad is an entire army.
My original post is below. It is to supplement my new addition.
I HAVE FINALLY HAD ENOUGH and decided to make a post about it.
I've been playing PR since .6. And with every release I get more and more frustrated with designs that try to "force" teamwork rather than creating a more "realistic" experience. I understand all the underlying factors such as "you can't mod the players," "hardcoded," etc.
I'll try to avoid writing a wall of text, but there's so much to cover. First, let me ask everyone this question. What is realistic about Project Reality anymore?
1) INF combat?
A: CQB is fully of spray and pray because walking speeds with sights up are too slow. Range combat is a pain because of random deviation. People are not afraid of dying and still are running and gunning. Weapons and weapons handling are not realistically modeled. Just to name a few.
2) Armor combat?
A: Tank turrets can snipe a dime from 1km away, and then turn around to kill an attach helicopter within half a min because of mouse controls. Symmetrical balance not = reality. Just to name a few
3) Aircraft combat?
A: Dogfights are extremely unrealistic. No BVR missiles. What kind of jets these days rely on INF to lase targets? Just to name a few.
4) Gameplay/ Teamwork?
A: How can you have realistic gameplay if the assets (weapons, tanks, jets, etc.) are not modeled accurately to real life counterparts? How can you encourage realistic behavior when given players unrealistic circumstances?
Of course i understand there are engine limitations, but ever heard of that phrase "something is better than nothing." Well in PR's case, it is more like "something in the wrong direction, is better than something in the right direction if it promotes 'teamwork'."
--------------------------------------------------------- SUGGESTION
If I may make a suggestion, I believe that it would greatly benefit PR if we just simply everything. Go back to its roots. Right now, PR is trying too hard to hinder a fun experience for players. For example, the deviation system feels unintuitive and makes the game less immersive as it makes guns harder to handle than they really are. Instead of making everything balanced, assets should be made as realistic as possible. SIMPLIFY SIMPLIFY SIMPLIFY. Make everything realistic to real life counterparts and let the players decide on realistic behavior instead of forcing them to do so with too many restrictions. That is just a few suggestions of a million things that could improve PR.
I know this post isn't comprehensive, but I'm sure the community will help me fill it in. I appreciate the DEV team's hardwork, but I just think that effort is made in the wrong direction. This post isn't meant to offend and Pls excuse any mistakes since I did this in a hurry.
Lastly, I'd like the community to help me make a list of things that PR got right and wrong.
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It is not very user friendly. I like the look of it though!
