All about snipers

[the.ultimate.maverick]

Well my logic is:

You can have the same resolution on monitors of different heights.
So you can have more pixels per vertical unit.
So the bullet drop maybe the same number of pixels a screen but a different number of cms...pixels are universal on cms (different screen sizes).
So you should figure out how many pixels by my method

[Eddie Baker]

"Adjustable" zoom would be unrealistic in my opinion.
A real sniper rifle has a scope with a fixed magnification, and snipers don't change the scope during battle.

The USMC has started to issue a 3-12x variable magnification telescopic sight for their M40A3s. As far as I know, the Army still uses the fixed 10x Leupold for the M24. Also, from what I understand, variable optics are standard for the Mk-11, SAM-R and other rifles in US inventory.

We have experimented with variable zoom, and it does work. We would like to include it, eventually. As for having the scope's reticle (mil-dot type in the case of the M24) scaled to in-game ballistics, that might be a bit more difficult.

[Malik]

Yeah, I know that, but if the tester does it on his resolution and applies his findings in CMs to pixels on his monitor it should work. If they find on their resolution and their monitor that the bullet drop for 100m is 1cm and they go into photoshop and edit the scope sprite to add a marking 1cm down, it'll work for all resolutions, as long as their resolution stays consistent.

This is confusing...

[the.ultimate.maverick]

Yeah, I know that, but if the tester does it on his resolution and applies his findings in CMs to pixels on his monitor it should work. If they find on their resolution and their monitor that the bullet drop for 100m is 1cm and they go into photoshop and edit the scope sprite to add a marking 1cm down, it'll work for all resolutions, as long as their resolution stays consistent.

This is confusing...

Thats what I said again..he he

And Wolf bullet drop doesn't change with stance but the deviation does make it seem it does - reread what you posted and thats what you said

[MrD]

wonder if the thread starter ever changes classes to support his team when they don't need him to be a sniper? I'm seeing some teamplay issues here.

A weapon carried in the field has to be rugged ("soldier-proof") and going by the old adage "if it moves, it'll break" we can understand why fixed scopes are so prevalent in combat weapons. Is there really any need for snipers to have their class so superb that no one will play against them? we'll start having to see servers where they turn sniper class off just to get some decent gaming done.

the non-teamplaying snipers that refuse to change class ever talk about wanting to be invisible, have a silent scope, have their scope upgraded, have extra ammo,.......... it just goes on and on and on

[the.ultimate.maverick]

I think scopes need to be made at a higher mag in game.

This will not be a bad think. A 10/15x zoom will make the sniper (if not experienced) have incredible tunnel vision and he will be incredibly exposed. However, this is balanced by his improved accuracy etc

If it stays at 5x, it is almost match by the SUSAT - no fair.

[Burning Mustache]

The thing is, I don't really see a point for much higher magnifications in the game due to the distances in the game maps.
There are few maps (night maps being an exception due to their current, shabby implementation) where you can even SEE beyond 300 meters or so in-game, and the scope of the M24, for instance, is EASILY sufficient for this distance.
I do ALREADY have trouble on maps like Muttrah City or the like with the current magnifications, as in they tend to magnify TOO MUCH for the battle distances we are being presented.

An even higher zoom would make it even more difficult because in BF2, you just generally snipe at distances, far, far less than those that a 15x magnification scope would be suited for.

[MrD]

snipers need to be over 800m away from a target to be used properly.

if i'm in the prone position with my old trusty L85A1 and you stand up 300-600m away from me, exposing half your body and stay still for 3 seconds then you can expect my first or second round to go through you (I started to double fire to guarantee hits or even go past limits on the ranges. it's always a laugh when they call out the scores and you hear "12 out of 10" )

[Burning Mustache]

snipers need to be over 800m away from a target to be used properly.

if i'm in the prone position with my old trusty L85A1 and you stand up 300-600m away from me, exposing half your body and stay still for 3 seconds then you can expect my first or second round to go through you (I started to double fire to guarantee hits or even go past limits on the ranges. it's always a laugh when they call out the scores and you hear "12 out of 10" )

Which is why the sniper rifles in PRMM should work at least decently reliable at your average BF2 distances (200-300m), without a "deviation-cone" of +/- 20 meters when lying prone and sniping a target 200 meters away. The only thing we should experience is "bullet-drop" and we should be able to counter that with the scope alignment and range-finder binocs.

Also, this is exactly why we SHOULDN'T have 15x magnification scopes.

[the.ultimate.maverick]

I disagree

For balance I say give them a scope MUCH better than the SUSAT otherwise why have them?! Plus a greater scope creates dangerous tunnel vision which can only be countered by spotters which promotes team work

[Burning Mustache]

What's a "SUSAT" ?

[the.ultimate.maverick]

It is the Sight Unit Small Arms Trilux - the standard 4x op. sight in the British Army.

Used on the SA80 etc - it will be coming live in PR 1.0

[Gaz]

"Adjustable" zoom would be unrealistic in my opinion.
A real sniper rifle has a scope with a fixed magnification, and snipers don't change the scope during battle.
I think the zoom itself is fine with most sniper rifles, especially the M24, as you usually can't see a lot farhter than 300 or 400 meters in-game anyway.
There's no need for a 15x magnification scope if you're not going to shoot targets at ranges of 1km or above.

What I would REALLY, REALLY like to see are scopes which actually "work" like real life scopes in regards to range-adjustment.
First off, give the sniper class range-finder binoculars, like the spec-ops has, to determine the distance of the designated target from your own position.

Now modifiy the scopes of the rifles so that the horizontal "dashes" on your scope represent distances, kinda like that:

Code: Select all

          |
          -
          |
          -
          |
-|---|----|---|---|-
          |
          -   100 m
          |
          -   200 m
          |

Where each dash represents a certain distance that correlates with the bullet-drop of the rifle, so you can actually adjust your aiming to the real distance of your target, and you don't have to "guess" the bullet-drop with each new target.
This would actually enable you to make one-shot kills without alerting the enemy with a "test" shot as to where you bullet lands.
It's the entire point of a sniper to take out unsuspecting targets with a snigle shot.
If I'd have to make a few "test" shots to determine where my bullets would land, I could just aswell take an assault rifle.

Also, make the lines of the crosshair A LOT slicker, the fat, bulky lines can sometimes cover your entire target.
There is NO reason for the crosshair's lines to be broader that one pixel.

All good points. However, at 100m, the round wouldn't yet be 'central' with the actual crosshair on the sight. The round would fall below it. It all depends on what distance the sight has been zero'd and set to. At 100m, the SUSAT on an SA80 would tell you that you are hitting the target bang on where you are aiming, however, your round/s would be striking the target approx 3 inches below that point of aim. This is because the SUSAT's default setting is 300m, and because of the travel of the round, it has not yet 'harmonised with the aiming point. If you know about fireams and ballistics, you will know that the full 'flightpath' of a round travels in a slight 'arch'.

The main issue with the zoom is that increasing it is rather pointless. The engine would negate 80% of the suggestions here. The other 20% have gameplay and performance implications. You can only see as far as your computer can handle, up to 100% that the BF2 engine allows.

What I am saying is that there are certain realities that cannot be introduced because of their negative effect on gameplay. By the distance you can see in BF2, you'd be lucky if you could see at the default setting the sight would be set at. Therefore having to aim a little above the target. All this bullet drop wouldn't even be a factor, as the round would still be RISING at this distance, especially with a sniper rifle. It's a realism vs gameplay issue. Do we go all realism and detroy the playability of the game?

[the.ultimate.maverick]

The 'arch' you speak of is a parabolic - and this consideration is incorporated when aiming (by myself at least), however, if you fire on the horizontal, the initial vertical component of speed becomes 0, and thus bullet drop can be considered more simply, as simply 'drop' relative to initial point of expulsion.

Once you calibrate the scope at the horizontal, it's the users task to factor in initial AOE and therefore parabolic differentials

[Gaz]

I bet you can't hit a barn door with it though Mav The laws of physics and ballistics tend to go over the average forum user's head

[[T*Co]StudMuffin21]

I'll volunteer to test this, 24 hours a day, for weeks, if we can get it to work in the end

I'm with ya on that.

[[T*Co]StudMuffin21]

wonder if the thread starter ever changes classes to support his team when they don't need him to be a sniper? I'm seeing some teamplay issues here.

Yes MrD,
I do frequently change my kit for the better of my squad and team. I in no way am selfish as to game play. That is why I joined Trust Company. I do what ever is asked in the situation. If nobody is giving orders, I take it upon myself to form an objective to better suit the situation.

However, in many cases, I am most valuable as a sniper. The reason for which is in being a sniper, I can not only take out high price targets, but notify fellow team mates of hostile threats in their vicinity.
As my own saying goes "I will watch over you like an eagle from afar, making sure enemies are silenced, so that you may encounter little resistance."

[Szarko]

Gaz']I bet you can't hit a barn door with it though Mav The laws of physics and ballistics tend to go over the average forum user's head

^LOL^


Do we realy need to be discusing physics?