Completely Removing the map with friendly positions for infantry

[badmojo420]

Not playable without friendly indicators on your map? Please explain how this would prevent anyone from playing the game.

[NightFalcon]

Well, I remember there being a thread on this, but through all my toils of searching, I wasn't able to locate it. There is a similar thread to it from pre 0.7, https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... eapon.html, but it was locked and I wish do discuss a suggestion that is similar, but not the same.

Firstly, Clypp has made some very nice topographical maps (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f66-pr ... imaps.html), and AFAIK VoXiNaTiOn and Deltafart may be finishing the project.

Secondly, it's quite unrealistic for infantry especially to get magic up-to-the-second-live satellite maps revealing all of your team, as well as the direction that they are facing.

To these ends, I was hoping to make it so that Squad leaders could have a topographical map as a "weapon" with which he could see objectives, but can't see any infantry. All of the squad members would have to rely on the SL, as they would not have the maps.

This would not apply for vehicles, as they still have their mini maps simulating GPSs I guess.

I see many Pros with this inclusion:

• The need to use landmarks to know where you're going and not get lost.
• The need to correctly ID targets through their uniforms before firing.
• A heavier reliance of the commander to give friendly positions.
• Another advantage to having a commander, because of an all-revealing map.
• A more in-depth playing experience.
• An expanded hierarchy providing each higher level (SM, SL, Commander) with better tools to be situationally aware. (from no map, to topographical map, to satellite map with friendly positions).
• Makes the commander useful, as he can keep his job, but is the only one aware of all the battlefield intel. He can now be used to coordinate the squads properly, since they'll need to rely on him.

A few potential problems exist, however, including:

• How would infantry know where to attack/defend?
• Would require enough time-consuming work put into it.

That first problem can be dealt with by either having (if possible) the map "weapon" show the attack and defend icons on the map, but with the image changed to look more like it's been just "drawn" onto the map.

If that's not possible, then a commander could provide the intel, making his/her role so much more important.

But don't forget this problem isn't a "problem" on CnC game modes, either.


The last problem shouldn't be too much of a pain, though, because I think it would be all worth it in the end. What are your thoughts concerning this?

I 100% support this idea. This is what PR needed long time ago!

[gaurd502]

Yep me too.

[Silverlance]

That would be just one more good step to achieve a better experience then it already is, add dificulty and it will filter the bad players.

Btw, kinda off.topic, but the SM of a squad in real life doesnt get a map for himself? does he need to rely only on his SL? It doesnt sound very natural since a soldier may get lost and without a map would be quite hard to find his way.

[fuzzhead]

If it was easily possible, this would have already be in.

The problem is that its difficult to give one player a map (squad leader) and others none (squad member/lone wolf).

Also the problem with changing infantry markings is very hardcoded.

I wrote what I think an ideal system would be for PR a while ago, but basically went like this:

Squadless: no map, you just get a big black picture that says " JOIN A SQUAD"

Squad Members: no map markings whatsoever, you just get the map and thats it.

Squad Leaders: map showing only vehicles and squad leader markers (numbers). Cannot see individual soldiers. Maybe they can see only members in their squad?

Commander: no changes from present, can see everyone and everything.

Problem with this is its not easily done, all the BF2 map stuff is hardcoded unfortunately, unless you somehow got very creative or found a different system to use to replace the current system.

I dont think it would take long for players to adapt to a system like this, there has been more drastic changes in the past, especially regarding removing auto-spotting and removing the minimap.

[McBumLuv]

Would it be possible to give regular SMs just a static weapon map? I'm guessing the only problem with that would be that it would take up another weaponslot, but if termites were limited to Comat engineers and specialists or something like that it should be doable, right? (Not that I want to debate over what would be removed).

I can see there being a problem with removing infantry from the map. If they're that hard to remove I guess coding them to not show up at a distance (such as vehicles with no drivers) would already have been thought up. And it's not possible to place their icons behind the map layer I'm guessing

[wookimonsta]

i read some people saying even your own marker should be removed so we have to use landmarks to navigate etc, in an age where most cellphones have gps, this seems a tad unrealistic.

also if the squadmembers cant see themselves on their map, imagine this: sl gets killed, and rally is down, he has to meet them somewhere and they cant move at all since they have no idea where they are.

[Masaq]

I spent yonks looking into this and it was basically impossible to do anything. Sorry guys.

[Rudd]

I spent yonks looking into this and it was basically impossible to do anything. Sorry guys.

[Tim270]

Well, its a nice Idea but in pub games it would kill team cohesion, this is as every squad would have to get predetermined objective, or every squad type in team chat where they are going and what they need. However, if the commander was actually used more It might work.

[Mr.Hyde]

If this was do-able by the DEVs then it would work for teamplay. Are you guys forgetting about Mumble?!

That would solve all the concerns, if it was possible. But its not possible so we should probably just leave it alone and come up with other stellar ideas like this one

[Bringerof_D]

i say stick with the maps as they are now instead of the weapon slot. SM has just a map which shows any SL markings, SL gets map which shows commander markings and the position for friendly SLs only. Commander gets the same map he does now. Vehichles have the map as they do now.

[Blade.3510]

That first problem can be dealt with by either having (if possible) the map "weapon" show the attack and defend icons on the map, but with the image changed to look more like it's been just "drawn" onto the map.

like farcry 2 how about a portable gps or keep the map but only the markers and flags

[AnRK]

I suggested this a while back in a similar thread, but I reckon it'd be good if there was at least a way of squad leaders radioing in their position, then there would be a static marker with the squad number in the area that they were last positioned in. Obviously having some sort of time limit on that so it can't just be done every couple of seconds would be a good idea in that case.

With that you'd at least have a vague map reference to work off, I imagine squads in real life have some idea of where other squads are operating due to their positions being updated to COs, although you could argue that that's a reason simply to have a commander all the time to keep squads updated with where other squads are.

[Mary.au]

Great idea, imo the pro's outweigh the con's

[mat552]

It'd be even better if bluefor tracking was enabled if someone was sitting in the CO seat..

[Gracler]

Proberly been suggested before....but!!!

Why don't you implement fog of war to be a very small radius....50meters radius maybe.

Every friendly guy or vehicle within 50 meters you also see on the minimap.

If you operate a vehicle (humwee or apc ect..) then your radius is bigger though maybe 500-700meters. This would also improve the purpose of having vehicels near infantry to improve the radius....as it is now people drive out in a humwee and throw it away on a corner like trash.

Its been a while since ive played BF2142....but the slow Tank (forgot the name)...didnt it have like a UAV beacon on it? just remove the beacon animation and make it permanent

These things might not be very realistic...but it would force a more realitic behavior since you woudnt know what is going on far away from you without listning to gunfire or asking the commander/or other SL's

everyone seems to belive that if VOIP isnt used or only used a little then you have no clue where anyone is....well my soundcard don't let me down though...i can hear directions of gunfire and thereby get an idea of where people are. Ofcourse since people can steal kits you cannot be sure if its friendly or enemy but thats the fun part of PR....to aim and confirm your target before killing it.

[Farks]

If it was easily possible, this would have already be in.

The problem is that its difficult to give one player a map (squad leader) and others none (squad member/lone wolf).

Also the problem with changing infantry markings is very hardcoded.

I wrote what I think an ideal system would be for PR a while ago, but basically went like this:

Squadless: no map, you just get a big black picture that says " JOIN A SQUAD"

Squad Members: no map markings whatsoever, you just get the map and thats it.

Squad Leaders: map showing only vehicles and squad leader markers (numbers). Cannot see individual soldiers. Maybe they can see only members in their squad?

Commander: no changes from present, can see everyone and everything.

Problem with this is its not easily done, all the BF2 map stuff is hardcoded unfortunately, unless you somehow got very creative or found a different system to use to replace the current system.

I dont think it would take long for players to adapt to a system like this, there has been more drastic changes in the past, especially regarding removing auto-spotting and removing the minimap.

This...

[HunterMed]

If it was easily possible, this would have already be in.

The problem is that its difficult to give one player a map (squad leader) and others none (squad member/lone wolf).

Also the problem with changing infantry markings is very hardcoded.

I wrote what I think an ideal system would be for PR a while ago, but basically went like this:

Squadless: no map, you just get a big black picture that says " JOIN A SQUAD"

Squad Members: no map markings whatsoever, you just get the map and thats it.

Squad Leaders: map showing only vehicles and squad leader markers (numbers). Cannot see individual soldiers. Maybe they can see only members in their squad?

Commander: no changes from present, can see everyone and everything.

Problem with this is its not easily done, all the BF2 map stuff is hardcoded unfortunately, unless you somehow got very creative or found a different system to use to replace the current system.

I dont think it would take long for players to adapt to a system like this, there has been more drastic changes in the past, especially regarding removing auto-spotting and removing the minimap.

Too bad... I am posting here because maybe now somebody has an idea to implement something like the above posted? I guess not but it doesnt hurt to ask right?

And to support the suggestion of course.
It would also bring a lot of new functions to the CO and would strengthen his weak postion he has at the moment.

[gclark03]

Change the current Officer kit to the "NCO" kit.

Create a new Commander kit with less offensive capability and allow both the CO and SLs to operate the satellite map from forward outposts and certain vehicles. He could also act as an artillery coordinator alongside the SLs; that's exactly what platoon commanders do IRL.

Give the CO the ability to designate points of interest, such as friendly units, on the topographic maps of select SLs. This simulates radio communication between a real squad leader and a platoon commander.

Also, reintroduce the UAV as a Commander-deployed and SL-requested drone with high altitude and no zoom.

Removing the satellite map won't work unless the Commander can provide good intel.