No more bottelnecks on maps?

Smoerble · Post by **Smoerble** » 2006-05-31 11:03

Hi everyone.
After playing now for a lot hours this amazing mod (woohoo

), I want to suggest a major change in map design:

Several maps have flags that are real bottlenecks, example:
CP Abadan, the falgs "Checkpoint" and "Outpost" and "Construction Site".

With bottleneck I mean a flag that can be defended very easily by one to two players. In normal BF2 I would think bottlenecks would help, but as you cannot go to any other flag, most maps get stuck on these points for a very long time, which I feel it makes the game a little more boring.

My suggestion is to make all flags a little (!) more easy to take over, then the front would move back and forth a lot more what would make the game a lot more interesting.

What do yu think?

S.O.P · Post by **S.O.P** » 2006-05-31 11:08

I think bottlenecks are a natural part of geography. Wouldn't be too realisitic if every map DIDN'T have a bottleneck of some sort.

SurgeonS@m · Post by **SurgeonS@m** » 2006-05-31 11:33

Keep the bottlenecks!

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-31 11:35

I think if you are seeing bottlenecks at CP Abadan at construction site etc you are not seeing the whole picture. There are 2 frontal assault routes from the South and West, a flanking route via the north village too. Also you can infil troops from the US southern base via boat - very effective

NiGHTWoLF · Post by **NiGHTWoLF** » 2006-05-31 12:03

We need bottlenecks to keep things interesting and intense.

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2006-05-31 12:08

I refuse to vote becuase of a similar reason to Mav wrote above. In ever city or enviroment there will be bottlenecks, and it is like all things in life, it is about a matter of balance. Bottlenecks are fun IF you have chosen to go through them and you are not forced to. THis means there is always another rout. Maps that have only one rout suck (no point naming maps at mo).

What i think some people are concerned about is that some maps have 2 or 3 routs BUT they are all bottlenecks. This should never really happen, becuase maps should include a number of different enviroments, each offering different challenges to players.
What is more fun is, when there maps require players to change "tactics", from low slums, where an emeny could be hiding roudn the next corner to high rise buidlings, with long open streets, change of threats, to open ground with again requiring diff tactics.
Anouther problem is, waht defines a bottleneck, often a couple of smokes can allow an easy path through.

blablalbalalalala........................osrry cant be assed to finish. sorry

Smoerble · Post by **Smoerble** » 2006-05-31 12:23

Ok, let's use a concrete example:
The TV station can be easily defended by one person. Reason: only one entrance to the flag: only the stairs.
You can place claymores (because they can't be eliminated/exploded), you can throw grenades from top down but not down to up) etc. I wouldn't mind if you have more than one route to the flag, but you don't have it, not even a simple ladder outside.

Don't get me wrong:
I LOVE this mod, and I love all the tactica and teamplay that come with it. All But keep an eye when do players leave the servers: always on these maps. There has to be a reason for this. And it can't be the queality of the maps as the queality is amazing.

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-31 12:37

Well you gotta remember that the TV station is the last flag so its fair enough that it is very hard to cap!

Also, there are many lines of sight for sniper ----> the roof!

Nick666 · Post by **Nick666** » 2006-05-31 13:34

Bottlenecks are OK as long as you can choose from some tactical variations or it is the last flag which should be really hard to take.
But I also want see some variations on maps e.g. on large maps a split-up where you can choose from two flags instead of the always linear one flag after the other method. This would be a little refreshing!

Let's give an example: Let's think of a landing operation for the US-faction. The first two flags on the beach can be choosen from and after this, there is a linear flag-route to the center of the map, where you maybe again can choose from two flags, then again a linear flag-route...
Especially on the beach the defending force have to defend two location and the attacking force can choose from two one with some tactical variations (e.g. a feint attack).

Post by **RikiRude** » 2006-05-31 19:44

Nick666 wrote:Bottlenecks are OK as long as you can choose from some tactical variations or it is the last flag which should be really hard to take.
But I also want see some variations on maps e.g. on large maps a split-up where you can choose from two flags instead of the always linear one flag after the other method. This would be a little refreshing!

Let's give an example: Let's think of a landing operation for the US-faction. The first two flags on the beach can be choosen from and after this, there is a linear flag-route to the center of the map, where you maybe again can choose from two flags, then again a linear flag-route...
Especially on the beach the defending force have to defend two location and the attacking force can choose from two one with some tactical variations (e.g. a feint attack).

to my knowledge i dont think its possible... but that would be really cool if it was.

i like bottle necks, because usually the enemy will be focusing on that one area, then my squad and i will flank from the back or area that no one is paying attention to and rip them up =D

Smoerble · Post by **Smoerble** » 2006-05-31 23:00

@mav:

Also, there are many lines of sight for sniper ----> the roof!

This does not help at all if the e team is in the stairway... what they usually are. No nades can come in, no sniper can see them.

And I personally DON'T want to have several maps to choose from in the same time. Because then we're close to normal BF2 gameplay which sucks (in my opinion).

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-31 23:07

If they in the stair way - do an EJOD pattented charge

Post by **Fullforce** » 2006-05-31 23:08

the.ultimate.maverick wrote:If they in the stair way - do an EJOD pattented charge

Damn right.

CP abadan is a big bottleneck. From the bridge to the streets, its all about force.

Wild_Wokman · Post by **Wild_Wokman** » 2006-05-31 23:10

In reality,if you had to defend a spot, you should setup your defense, so that you could cover all of the approches with crossfire. Why chose a spot you cannot cover?

If done right ...10 men can hold off 100 men. Look at Hamburger Hill or the pacific theater.

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-31 23:11

And having full force

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-31 23:13

Wild_Wokman wrote:In reality,if you had to defend a spot, you should setup your defense, so that you could cover all of the approches with crossfire. Why chose a spot you cannot cover?

If done right ...10 men can hold off 100 men. Look at Hamburger Hill or the pacific theater.

Not indefinitely. And 8 men can kill 50 men who are defending - i've seen it.

In fact I've been on a training mission where we had to retrieve an item from a tent protected by paras. They had 3 guys posted immediately around the tent and patrols in the surrounding area. We got the items and they had idea we had been there. My point? Numbers and placement are not everything - skill and tactics shine through

Elchewbacca · Post by **Elchewbacca** » 2006-06-01 00:07

Also there is always another route always. Wether from the air or the sea or underground? you get it...Just think outside of the box when you die 10 times in a row

MrD · Post by **MrD** » 2006-06-01 00:15

I was once on an exercise where we were dealing with terrorism and a portable nuke. A few of us were scouts with radios and split out from the rest. The force holding the nuke were all facing one way expecting our force to come from a main direction.

I came right upto them and they were rudely interrupted mid conversation as I joined in with "bang bang, you're all dead!"

there are always different ways to reach targets, it gets more interesting when you waste a trooper or two from the main assault by having them provide distraction fire, nades and smoke, etc and draw all the enemy into thinking you are assaulting in force from one or two most likely positions. then the main force quietly slips in behind and massacres everyone in a fit of the giggles.

Smoerble · Post by **Smoerble** » 2006-06-01 12:10

@Elchewbacca:

Also there is always another route always. Wether from the air or the sea or underground? you get it...Just think outside of the box when you die 10 times in a row.

In general I fully agree... but please tell me where's a second way to get into TV station? I think you mean a different map

.

MrD · Post by **MrD** » 2006-06-01 12:22

1) you can go over the hills to the right and attack via the first arty OR keep going out of sight of the front and drop down and go in the back door

2) you can run straight towards it from construction site and past the checkpoint then go up the stairs and attack their radar and arty unit there

3) you can go through fence on left and through building and behind the building with the ramp then attack up the main ramp going forwards then left through OR you turn left then right coming up to the side of the UAV

4) you can go clockwise round from the last flag at alleyway, to the left of the fence and come in at two places, either through fence and upto UAV OR go round back of tv station and in rear door

5) you can grab a boat and go anti clockwise round and come up on the left side of the fence again

How many ways do you want?

No more bottelnecks on maps?

Do you want bottlenecks on maps?

No more bottelnecks on maps?