Suggestion: Squad APC Spawn?

[waldo_ii]

This is basically a cross between the .6 APC spawn and rally points, favoring mechanized infantry and proper usage of APCs. Right now, mechanized infantry is pretty rare. Very effective when done properly, but generally people use them more as tanks than transport. I think the solution to this is giving APCs their spawn point back, but only for the squad. Make the APC act just like a rally point. The spawn would appear when the squad leader enters the driver seat of the APC, and disappears when he disembarks or changes seat position. There won't be a need for an officer kit so much when the APC is a rally point (remember, you can still request kits off the back of the APC).

I think this would add much more incentive to use the APC properly with a full squad rather than go kill-hunting.



I'm just putting this out there to see who likes it. An idea is worthless if it is never suggested.




I didn't find this suggestion in the *** thread or in a search for "APC Squad Spawn"


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Edit as of JULY 29: As the OP, I declare that this topic be redirected away from APC Squad spawn to IFV squad spawn. APCs are meant to taxi infantry, not support them. IFVs, however, are meant to stay together with infantry, and the idea of single-squad spawn points for IFVs remains.

APC: Armored Personnel Carrier, meant only to carry personnel.
IFV: Infantry Fighting Vehicle, meant to carry personnel and fight along side said personnel, giving heavy support.

[vilhelm123]

I really like this actually. Would promote teamwork between infantry and apcs alot as if you keep the apc alive, you get a spawn so it very much in your interests to work together. Would also mean Mech infantry squad would be able to make up for losing two guys to the apc as dead squadmembers could spawn in the action.


+1

[Rudd]

I'm not a fan, if it were up to me we wouldn't even have rally points though

[daranz]

The only problem I see that people without AT support would be constantly swarmed with dismounts and eventually overrun. It can be done right now, but you need to set up a RP as you suppress the enemy infantry, and even then you can't do it too close or the RP will get overrun. With spawns inside an APC it would be impossible to eliminate the APC's infantry support without eliminating the APC itself.

[hx.bjoffe]

Sounds too much like Squad APC Spam to me.
But i'm not a very big fan of rallypoints either.

[Dude388]

Pros

- Another form of getting to the front lines (also better for keeping squads together)
- Makes the APC a valuable target for enemies
- 3x safer than spawning as the fragile solider from a rally
- Makes smart players more cautious about using the APC (ie. more careful about the status of the APC)

CONS

- A little unrealistic (players just appearing in armor, but so is the rallies :wink
- Dumb players will do what they do now, just run to the APC and just use it as a tank (taking on passengers).
- Player that are tanking in it, could exploit this by having one respawning as an engineer to make repairs (very small exploit)
- This does really make it more "transport oriented" because it only allows spawing for the drivers squad. SO this way there's less chance of it being used to transport other players

Good suggestion, but needs more tweaking to make it what you want it to be.

[ReaperMAC]

if it were up to me we wouldn't even have rally points though

Good thing it's not up to you. About the idea though, the mechanize infantry could lay a rally point once they disembark from the APC, which more or less serves the same purpose.

[CodeRedFox]

- This does really make it more "transport oriented" because it only allows spawing for the drivers squad. SO this way there's less chance of it being used to transport other players

This is the main reason we don't do this anymore. Supply chains will become an even more important part of PR in the future.

[Tannhauser]

Good thing it's not up to you. About the idea though, the mechanize infantry could lay a rally point once they disembark from the APC, which more or less serves the same purpose.

I beg to differ, RP's actually defeat the purpose of supply lines and armored transportation, once you get to the frontline the first time, that's it, no need for trucks or APC's, you're free to charge at the enemy knowing you'll respawn and that if you lose your rally, you'll just get a ISV at main.

Having no RP's does make APC's, Trucks and ISV's far more important for the teams sake than it does now. But I also agree that deleting them completely is just wrong because they're a vector of teamwork proper to PR. What about adding distance from wich you can place a rally from the flag? or the contrary? Well anyway..

[Airsoft]

no, APC should be a squad of their own. If wants mechinised still able but in different squads.

[llPANCHOll]

We quite often run Mech Infantry squads, and frankly, if this was implemented it would really imbalance the game.. A properly co-ordinated Mech Infantry Squad is a force to be reconed with.. Add to that the abillity to spawn on the APC and it would be just too devastating..

[Eddiereyes909]

no, APC should be a squad of their own. If wants mechinised still able but in different squads.

I agree with this man, mech inf are 2 squads working together, not just one.

[Scandicci]

I agree with this man, mech inf are 2 squads working together, not just one.

On a public server without friends who are on TS or Vent this is near to impossible to do effectively. I run MechInf squads with just the 6 players in my squad pretty effectively. Boots to cap flags and cannons to provide overwatch and support. It works very well. I would love to run a true Mech Infantry element with two or more squads but this requires quite a bit of coordination before even logging onto PR. Since I play PR 2.5 hours per week currently I don't have the luxury of setting up this sort of coordination ahead of time.

Allowing squad mates to spawn in the APC as this thread suggests is not necessary in my opinion. It would merely allow the SL to drive the APC and still give a spawn point to the squad. I just keep the SL kit and have two other squad members operate the APC. The SL has lots of other jobs to do other than drive if the squad is composed of more than just crewmen.

[jbgeezer]

Well I support this, as this promotes mechanized infantry

[Oak]

Pros

- Another form of getting to the front lines (also better for keeping squads together)
- Makes the APC a valuable target for enemies
- 3x safer than spawning as the fragile solider from a rally
- Makes smart players more cautious about using the APC (ie. more careful about the status of the APC)

CONS

- A little unrealistic (players just appearing in armor, but so is the rallies :wink
- Dumb players will do what they do now, just run to the APC and just use it as a tank (taking on passengers).
- Player that are tanking in it, could exploit this by having one respawning as an engineer to make repairs (very small exploit)
- This does really make it more "transport oriented" because it only allows spawing for the drivers squad. SO this way there's less chance of it being used to transport other players

Good suggestion, but needs more tweaking to make it what you want it to be.

I think you made good observations here, though you forgot the original pro - to make mechanized infantry squads much more common. Right now it's a real rarity, 98% of the time APCs are used as light tanks. This would really make them something else.

I know the PR team intends mechanized infantry to be composed of two squads, but

1. As mentioned before, this is difficult to coordinate
2. I have seen and been a member of mechanized infantry composed of one squad only (2 crewmen + 3 to 4 infantry) with GREAT results

Another con, though, is that it makes APCs stronger in maps they already dominate (mainly tankless city maps, like Muttra). However, like you said, I think with this suggestion APCs will be used more cautiously, meaning less dominating and more surviving.

Overall, I think the pros you mentioned far outweigh the cons. Playing mechanized is really fun in my experience, both for the crewmen and for the infantry.

A down side of this specific suggestion, in my opinion, is that it limits the squad leader to be one of the crewmen. Perhaps it should be changed to "if the squad leader occupies seats 1 to 3 of the APC" or "if the squad leader is the same squad as the driver".

CodeRedFox;869160']
This [APCs not taking members of other squads] is the main reason we don't do this anymore.

Maybe that's what you tried to do, but nowadays - like trucks and jeeps - APCs are usually occupied by the same squad, if occupied at all. Yes, I have seen APCs play transport for others, but this is not at all common. Besides, it would still be possible to do with this suggestion.

[badmojo420]

Search works!! Resuggestion avioded

+1 for this idea. I think most of what i had in mind was covered by the comments. Except maybe making the spawn similar to a rallypoint, so it can be overrun. So for example if an APC rolled up to a house full of insurgents, their spawn would be overrun, and wouldn't attempt to re-create itself for a few minutes. Forcing the APC to fall back to safer ground and wait for the reinforcements. This would avoid the concerns about spawn spamming into a hot zone.

But, i still don't think this suggestion is going to fly. So how about a simple yet effective alternative. Let the squad leader drive/command the APC, with an officer kit.

[waldo_ii]

This is the main reason we don't do this anymore. Supply chains will become an even more important part of PR in the future.

I just had to quote this, I laughed when I read it a moment ago. Remember, these first two pages were written long ago, before the great Logistics system was introduced.




As for the content, I think I could have re-worded this suggestion better. APC spawn should never be brought back, although I do believe IFV spawn isn't a horrible idea. That isn't to say that it is a fantastic idea or anything, but seeing as IFVs are meant to cooperate with infantry, unlike APCs who merely taxi infantry, it could help enforce proper behavior.

[SkaterCrush]

Iunno, I don't really like this suggestion for all maps, but maybe a new game mode could be made?

[Celestial1]

Bad things:

1) SL sits in apc. Squad spawns infinitely and rushes like idiots to objective while SL has a pizza... or something.
2)All SLs sit in APC. All but one get out, squad spawns, leaves APC, next squad in repeat to end.


Some of the bigger things that would have to be addressed. Solution?

1) Only able to spawn 5 people in APC per XX amount of time
2) That applies to ALL spawning in the APC, not just per squad.

[Rudd]

I would hate this idea.

I much prefer out of squad APCS for several reasons.

An APC within a infantry squad barely ever responds to a transport request from another squad

An APC within an infantry squad means the infantry squad loses 2 men.

Without mumble the APC coms just piss me off. I'm trying to give orders when there's "GUNNER, 130, enemy infantry!" in my ears.

If you put a spawn point in to the APC for the squad it effectively puts limits on which tactics you can use.

Firebases are enough.